What do you think of this situation?

Jay1984

Please read and evaluate and give me some advice. Appreciate all responses. Really not in a financial situation in which I can pay this fine:

I was given a civil parking fine last month. Many times I have parked in the same place and done that same thing. For years you have had to pay for parking in the street between 8am and 6pm. It has been free of charge with no restrictions at all from 6pm until 8pm. Many times I have arrived before 6pm and paid the amount needed to put it over the 6pm mark and secure parking until the next morning. In fact the ticket even gets printed out saying it runs out the next morning and the machine says the time and date of 8am the following day as soon as the coin that pushes it past 6pm drops. Due to nightclubs in the area apparently the council changed parking on that street for nigh time the week I got this ticket.

- I arrived at 3pm to the same area as always and dropped coins into the machine until it ticked past 6pm, as the final coin dropped the screen on the machine changed the time to 8am. There were no markings on the machine the post with the machine and nothing to stop you paying for time after 6pm.
-I was and still am in possession of the ticket that states the arrival time and expiry time and date.
-I returned to the car at about 11pm to see a ticket. There were some signs on the street saying parking was suspended and a sack had now been placed over the entire machine and had "parking suspended on it".
-I didnt see the signs before hand as I had no reason to doubt my rights as I have done this for years and was being sold a ticket by the council that informed me I had a right to be there. There were no markings on the machine when I bought the ticket.
-I appealed saying:

• Not fair as there were no markings on the machine and I should not have to search the whole street with a magnifying glass (in other words).
• That I was unfairly sold a ticket which stated when I could come back. This is even worse as it was a sale and they essentially sold me something invalid. (surely a trading standards violation and also contradicting any signs in the area).
• I also said I believed the signs in the street were put up after I had parked and paid. (Wasnt 100% sure on this but they were just strapped to trees and I hadnt seen them. but the sack wasnt on the machine and there was nothing on the machine)

They have rejected it!!!!!

Here is a copy of the letter I received by e-mail attachment today:


Re : Notice of rejection of “challenge” - Traffic Management Act 2004
PCN No : PO70628324
Date Issued : 12/12/2008
Location of Contravention : KING HENRY 1 STREET


Thank you for your appeal against the above Penalty Charge Notice and after careful consideration of the circumstances, I have decided not to cancel the charge for the following reason(s):-

21 Parked in a suspended bay or space or part of bay or space

Your vehicle was parked in an area where parking had been suspended. The Civil Enforcement Officer has noted that a sign advising of the restriction was located approximately 7 metres from your vehicle. The responsibility is with the motorist to comply with the signage before leaving their vehicle and as such, I am unable to allow your appeal.

In addition to this, at the time the Penalty Charge Notice was issued, the meter was covered, with further signage stating ‘PARKING SUSPENDED’.

In your representation you have stated that the parking suspension was initiated on the day that you purchased your Pay and Display ticket with the signage being erected after you had purchased your ticket. You have enclosed a copy of the Pay and Display ticket, which has an expiry time of 08.49 on Saturday 13 December 2008, and have stated that at the time you purchased the ticket there was no sign saying that parking, had been suspended.

The Civil Enforcement Officer first observed your vehicle parked opposite the Isambard Kingdom public house in King Henry 1st Street at 19.25. Hours and issued the Penalty Charge Notice at 19.26 Hours. NO sign of Loading\Unloading was seen to be taking place. The Civil Enforcement Officer noted that the signage advising of the suspension 6pm-8 is was situated approximately 7 metres from your vehicle, and the meter had been covered.

Although you have stated that you purchased your Pay and Display ticket before the time the suspension was enforceable I am unable to uphold your representation as it the responsibility of the motorist to comply with the signage prior to leaving their vehicle. On this occasion it may have been prudent to park elsewhere as the suspension was enforceable from 6pm and you required parking your vehicle overnight during the time the suspension was enforceable.

[FONT=&quot]I have checked and signage advising to the suspensions was erected on 07/11/2008.

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]What can I do?
[/FONT]

Jay1984

all in bold is their letter

Jay1984

They seem to me to have avoided my main points in the protest

boombap

A quick heads up: the experts on here will ask you to scan in/photograph and upload all of the ticket and state what council it is.

Hope you're able to get this ticket thrown out - seems mighty unfair to me.

Anyhoo, some experts will soon be along to help

Neil_B

yeah it's bollox and you hit the nail on the head that they failed to properly consider your point - legal requirement.

You missed a crucial detail - which Council?

Scan and post PCN and preferably a proper scan of that rejection.

ALL of both - ALL means ALL - as in ALL (sorry mate - in-joke).

lcharm

If your ticket said you could come back in the morning then they are definitely in the wrong, regardless of the signs, it needs to be stated at every possible point (i.e. on the ticket and on the machine as well).

It must be in breach of some act or another but Trading Standards should be able to help you!! Really hope you get it sorted.

Unstoppable_2

lcharm wrote: »

If your ticket said you could come back in the morning then they are definitely in the wrong, regardless of the signs,

Incorrect. Temporary restrictions can be put in place. The ticket only covers the periods from 8am-6pm, the time "pay and display" is in force and no other times outside of that. Outside of 6pm-8am, whatever other restrictions are in place take effect, so the fact the ticket states after 8am the following day is completely and utterly irrelevent in this case. The temporary restriction was in force and the OPs car was parked in it. The ticked DID NOT say that the council had said the OP has a right to be there between the hours of 6pm-8am.

They have considered the OPs point and rejected it. The OPs claim that the sign doesn't exist when there's one SEVEN METRES from their vehicle is just a joke.

As to markings about parking restrictions not being on the machine, if the OP bothered to open a copy of the Highway Code, they'd realise they don't have to be.

I didnt see the signs before hand as I had no reason to doubt my rights as I have done this for years

Speaks volumes. Because the OP has been doing it for years, they've not noticed the new restriction. It's no different to when there's speed limit changes and people who have been driving down that road for years don't notice and get done for speeding.
Even the OP admits that there was a change they didn't notice:

Due to nightclubs in the area apparently the council changed parking on that street for nigh time the week I got this ticket.

To the OP. Pay up. Next time remember to check the rectangular signs on the poles as outlined in the Highway Code.

Jay1984

Parking Service

Alec Rose Lane

Portsmouth

PO1 2BX

Phone: (023) 9268 8310

Fax: (023) 9268 8286

Ref: PO70628324

Date: 16/01/2009

Dear Mr …….

Re : Notice of rejection of “challenge” - Traffic Management Act 2004
PCN No : PO70628324
Date Issued : 12/12/2008
Location of Contravention : KING HENRY 1 STREET

Thank you for your appeal against the above Penalty Charge Notice and after careful consideration of the circumstances, I have decided not to cancel the charge for the following reason(s):-

21 Parked in a suspended bay or space or part of bay or space

Your vehicle was parked in an area where parking had been suspended. The Civil Enforcement Officer has noted that a sign advising of the restriction was located approximately 7 metres from your vehicle. The responsibility is with the motorist to comply with the signage before leaving their vehicle and as such, I am unable to allow your appeal.

In addition to this, at the time the Penalty Charge Notice was issued, the meter was covered, with further signage stating ‘PARKING SUSPENDED’.

In your representation you have stated that the parking suspension was initiated on the day that you purchased your Pay and Display ticket with the signage being erected after you had purchased your ticket. You have enclosed a copy of the Pay and Display ticket, which has an expiry time of 08.49 on Saturday 13 December 2008, and have stated that at the time you purchased the ticket there was no sign saying that parking, had been suspended.

The Civil Enforcement Officer first observed your vehicle parked opposite the Isambard Kingdom public house in King Henry 1st Street at 19.25. Hours and issued the Penalty Charge Notice at 19.26 Hours. NO sign of Loading\Unloading was seen to be taking place. The Civil Enforcement Officer noted that the signage advising of the suspension 6pm-8 is was situated approximately 7 metres from your vehicle, and the meter had been covered.

Although you have stated that you purchased your Pay and Display ticket before the time the suspension was enforceable I am unable to uphold your representation as it the responsibility of the motorist to comply with the signage prior to leaving their vehicle. On this occasion it may have been prudent to park elsewhere as the suspension was enforceable from 6pm and you required parking your vehicle overnight during the time the suspension was enforceable.

I have checked and signage advising to the suspensions was erected on 07/11/2008.

If you wish to pay the charge at the discounted rate of £35.00 and close the case you may do so within 14 days of receiving this Notice, but after this period the full charge of £70 is payable. You may pay:

·[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]By cheque, card, cash or postal order. (please do not send cash by post). Payment should be sent to the address given above and please write the Penalty Charge Notice number on your cheque/postal order. Cheques must be made payable to “Portsmouth City Council”.
·[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]In person at the Parking Office, Alec Rose Lane, Portsmouth PO1 2BX and the office is open from 8.30 am to 5.00 pm, on Monday, Tuesday and Thursday, 9.30 am to 5.00 pm on Wednesday, 8.30 am to 4.30 pm on Friday and from 9.00 am to 1.00 pm on Saturday.
·[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]If you wish to pay by credit/debit card please use our Automated Telephone Payment service by calling 0845 6066243 or alternatively please telephone the office on (023) 9268 8310.
·[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]By using the Portsmouth City Council web site @ https://www.portsmouth.gov.uk and selecting the ‘Pay For It’ link.

If you decide not to pay, but to continue your appeal against this Penalty Charge Notice, the registered owner/keeper of the vehicle as registered at the DVLA, will receive a Notice to Owner form and this may be used to make a formal appeal to the Council. While all decisions on parking appeals are applied with fairness and consistency, each case turns upon its own circumstances and factors such as the adequacy of signs, the clarity of the lines and the validity of the traffic order are always considered.

Additionally, other unique circumstances may reasonably be considered when determining an appeal and it is for you to ensure that the Council is fully provided with all of the relevant information.

If your appeal is unsuccessful, you will receive a Notice of Rejection together with details enabling you to refer your appeal to the Traffic Penalty Tribunal, based in Manchester and are wholly independent of the Council. Appeals are heard at a number of venues across the country and full details of these venues will be provided. You may have your appeal heard in person including Saturday mornings if that is more convenient, or by post. If your appeal is successful you pay nothing, but if your appeal is refused then the full £70 will usually be payable. Please note that for legal reasons it is not possible to appeal to a parking adjudicator without going through the process of making a formal representation to the Council.

Yours sincerely



Mr C A Wickens
For Parking Manager[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

Jay1984

it is portsmouth city council, that is a copy and paste of everything but my own name, is an actual scan needed? that is everything on the page

Neil_B

If you really wanna make it work yep scans of ALL of the PCN (although I think P'mouth are compliant from memory) and pics of the location signage and road markings.

peter_the_piper

Please scan the pcn and nto, remove all identifying features and post on site using tinypic as per stickies. If no scanner use digital camera or mobile phone camera. Copy both sides of all documents as there may be something usable which Neil and co can find which the rest of us would miss.