Disabled Bay Insult!

Little_RAY

I am fuming over a recent car parking charge from a private company who will rename nameless! In brief this is my situation:

- My car was parked in a parking bay in a nearby shopping centre, where the the passengers and driver of the car went shopping, we then came back to discover a parking charge notice on my car.
- The charge was for parking in a disabled bay
- There were no signs that were visable from the bay we had parked in.
- The bay had a blacked out wheelchair symbol (I remember the yellow paint being removed from these years ago.)

I took some photographs of the bay with the car in and out of the bay. The photos clearly show that there is no obvious wheelchair sign from the bay. When I received the invoice I immediately typed up an objection letter explaining the lack of signage, and provided the photos as evidence of my claim.

The company replied to me today (grrr) saying that "these bays are reserved for the disabled" and "There are sufficient signs warning vehicle owners..." The letter then went on to endeavour to send me on a guilt trip, "We strongly feel that being disabled brings enough obstacles and difficulties without the misuse of disabled bays."

I am so incredibly insulted by their insinuation that I am one of the few ignorant people that would knowingly park in a disabled bay. :mad: I WOULD NEVER EVER do this! This is far more upsetting than even the parking charge!

Anyway, I have been told that unless new evidence is presented this appeal is now closed. They didn't even consider my previous evidence, so why would they consider anything new? What is more evident than photographic proof that there was no obvious signage? I'm so angry, is there anything else I can do?

peter_the_piper

Just forget it, when you receive their letters etc oveer the next few weeks file them away, don't contact anymore, don't say who was driving, not even on a forum. They will give up after a few ever more threatening mail, even down to the scary ones with writing.

sarahg1969

Assuming you've not paid (you've NOT paid, have you?), file the letters away and ignore them. Be prepared for ever-more threatening letters, even ones written in BOLD type and using different colours. But DO NOT pay. You have not been fined. And even if they decided to take this to court (which is highly unlikely), they wouldn't win.

bargepole

Little_RAY wrote: »

When I received the invoice I immediately typed up an objection letter explaining the lack of signage, and provided the photos as evidence of my claim.... Anyway, I have been told that unless new evidence is presented this appeal is now closed. They didn't even consider my previous evidence, so why would they consider anything new? What is more evident than photographic proof that there was no obvious signage? I'm so angry, is there anything else I can do?

You should have read Martin's article on private parking before sending in an "appeal", there is no appeal process with PPCs, they are just scam artists after your money.

Whilst I would always advise leaving marked disabled spaces for those who need them, such markings (whether clear or not) have no legal significance in private car parks.

Ignore everything they send you from now on, DO NOT PAY THEM A PENNY, and in the extremely unlikely (1 in 10,000) event that they issue court proceedings, your photos will establish that you did not breach any terms of contract. That's in addition to the numerous other reasons why PPCs can hardly ever succeed with court claims.

Little_RAY

bargepole wrote: »

You should have read Martin's article on private parking before sending in an "appeal", there is no appeal process with PPCs, they are just scam artists after your money.

I did read the article on private parking. I mentioned nothing about my letter being an appeal when I wrote to them (I used Martin's template). The word 'appeal' was termed by them when they replied to me!

I'm not frightened of them trying to take me to court. I doubt they'll bother for such a small amount. They said they would send my case to a debt recovery agency if I didn't pay - this was written on their invoice. I find that a bit scary!! :eek: What happens if they do that?

And, no, I've not paid them a penny!

Please also know that I do not agree with people parking in disabled bays if they are not disabled (badge or no badge!). My own father was given the opportunity to have a disabled badge but he refused because he thought he could still cope better than a lot of people with disabilities that he knew (he just suffers silently, bless him!). That's how I was raised! That's why I find this whole thing so incredibly insulting!

bargepole

Little_RAY wrote: »

I'm not frightened of them trying to take me to court. I doubt they'll bother for such a small amount. They said they would send my case to a debt recovery agency if I didn't pay - this was written on their invoice. I find that a bit scary!! :eek: What happens if they do tha

The "debt recovery agency" for PPCs usually means that if they haven't managed to scare you into paying with their original letters, Sharon will pass the file to Tracey at the next desk in the portakabin, and she will send you a letter on different headed paper. These often have the same address (PO Box No) in small print at the bottom of the letter.

Some of them will get your phone number and call you, in which case you should say "hold on, I'll just get him", and leave the phone off the hook while playing Engelbert Humperdinck's Greatest Hits on your CD player for about 10 minutes.

They may also threaten to send a debt collector on a personal visit, which hardly ever happens as it costs petrol and they have no powers. If one of these turns up on your doorstep, ask to see his ID, and ask, while examining the ID, "Have you come far?" Then hand back the ID, say "Well, have a safe journey back then", and firmly close the door.

Neil_B

bargepole wrote: »

TSharon will pass the file to Tracey at the next desk in the portakabin,

Oi! Stop nickin me jokes! Ya forgot about their repective qualifications, LOL.

bargepole wrote: »

and leave the phone off the hook while playing Engelbert Humperdinck's Greatest Hits on your CD player for about 10 minutes.

All very painful for the so called DCA but kinda backfires without personal earplugs at your end!

Bargepole - any comment about the 'template' letter?

bargepole

Neil_B wrote: »

Bargepole - any comment about the 'template' letter?

Personally, I wouldn't bother sending it for two reaons.

Firstly, it establishes the identity of the driver, which saves the PPC the £2.50 fee for getting the registered keeper's name from the DVLA, and also gets them across the first of the hurdles they need to clear if they were to take it to court.

Secondly, regardless of how reasonably argued your letter is, they will simply respond with a standard "your appeal has been rejected, now pay up".

There are no known cases of any PPC taking anyone to court where no correspondence has been entered into by the alleged debtor.

Neil_B

bargepole wrote: »

Personally, I wouldn't bother sending it for two reaons.

Firstly, it establishes the identity of the driver, which saves the PPC the £2.50 fee for getting the registered keeper's name from the DVLA, and also gets them across the first of the hurdles they need to clear if they were to take it to court.

Secondly, regardless of how reasonably argued your letter is, they will simply respond with a standard "your appeal has been rejected, now pay up".

There are no known cases of any PPC taking anyone to court where no correspondence has been entered into by the alleged debtor.

Exactly what I meant and totally agree.

Little_RAY

Thanks Bargepole and Neil B!

Well, I see what you're saying about the letter giving the company my contact details.... BUT, they already had my contact details because they sent the invoice for their parking charge to my address using my name (amusingly they don't seem to know whether I'm a "sir" or "madam"!). They could only have got this information by using my vehicle registration number, so I suppose they've already contacted the DVLA!

Perhaps I didn't make it clear: the parking charge notice which they stuck on my car in the first place was only a warning that I would be receiving an invoice through the post. It did not ask for payment.

Their reply to my letter stated that their signs (which they claim to have a "sufficient" number of) warn that vehicle owners will be issued with a PCN if the vehicle is left without a valid disabled badge. As I saw none of these signs I obviously was unaware of this until I received their reply letter. They have never asked who was driving and I have not actually said whether it was me or not - it doesn't seem to matter to them who was driving, just that I am the owner of the vehicle.

bargepole

Little_RAY wrote: »

Their reply to my letter stated that their signs (which they claim to have a "sufficient" number of) warn that vehicle owners will be issued with a PCN if the vehicle is left without a valid disabled badge. As I saw none of these signs I obviously was unaware of this until I received their reply letter. They have never asked who was driving and I have not actually said whether it was me or not - it doesn't seem to matter to them who was driving, just that I am the owner of the vehicle.

Yes, but this is where the whole PPC scam falls apart - they can only rely on Contract Law, and a contract can only be deemed to have been formed between the driver and the landowner. You will also find, if this PPC are members of the BPA, that the association's code of conduct requires them to try and establish who the driver was. As they are failing in even this basic duty, you could complain about them to the DVLA and suggest that they be denied access to registration number information.

The registered keeper may not necessarily have been the driver (huge number of lease/company/hire cars on the road, for example) and cannot be held to have entered into any contract.

So basically the letters they are sending you are complete hogwash, the advice continues to be ignore & don't pay.

Edit: One other thing - a "valid disabled badge" only has any legal validity in Council Car Parks, not private ones.