Scottish Power / Shared Septic Tank Issue

Broonster

Hi

I'm not quite sure if this is the right section for this query, as it related to two kinds of services I suppose, but I think Electricity is probably the most suited.....

Okay, here's the background of my problem: We moved into a small, private development of 4 houses in December 2007. We were the first occupants and remained so until the next lot of people moved in in May 2008, with the third lot of occupants moving in a few weeks later. The fourth house remains vacant (and unfinished) at the moment. The developer is a 2-man band and have been, well, challenging to say the least.

So, the problem: all 4 houses are connected to a shared septic tank on communal ground, run on some kind of electric motor to treat the waste. It therefore (supposedly) never needs emptied. It costs around £800 a year to run, which works out cheaper than the local authority sewerage charges (split between the 4 houses).

As we (me & my wife) were first to move in, Scottish Power, in their usual wisdom, decided that we would be the named people on the account. Firstly, can they do this? I haven't given my conesent to enter into a contract with them?

We've had an overall bill from when we moved in of around £900-ish. Now, this is obviously to be split 4 ways: the developer should, IMO, pay 3 shares and we pay one share, up until occupier 2 moves in, then he should pay 2 shares up until occupier 3 moves in and so on.

All occupiers have now paid what they are due for their share, including ourselves, calculated from the relevant moving-in dates, apart from the developer. With all his 'shares', he's due to pay in the region of £400-ish.

We've had another reminder from Scottish Power about the outstanding amount, and the developer still hasn't paid. The reminder is now mentioning things like being cut off, the amount being handed to a debt recovering agency etc. Our concern is that WE are liable for the outstanding amount and that OUR credit rating will be affected by HIM not paying!

I have spoken to him about it but he's stalling (I think he's in financial difficulties personally, given the housing market etc)

I'm concious that this may seem quite confusing and long-winded, so here's my queries in a nutshell:

1) Can we be made liable for all 4 houses, as it's one electricity account?
2) The 3 occupied houses have all paid their shares to date, with direct debits now having been set up by all - everyone is fine with the arrangements in place (all apart from the developer of course). What action can we take from here?
3) Can Scottish Power still persue us, even though it's the developer's share that's outstanding?
4) Can Scottish Power simply put us down as being the account holder, and therefore into a contract, with our permission?

I'll obviously contact Scottish Power and explain the situation, and the developer again, but I just wanted to see if anyone has had similar experiences or could offer any advice?

Thanks inadvance.

nesssie1702

Off the top of my head: You shouldn't be liable for this at all, the developer should and he should also be responsible for the fourth, unoccupied house. However, as far as SP are concerned, you're the named individual and they'll have you down as the account holder, unless you've informed them differently.

When you've contacted Scottish Power, have you done so in writing to explain the circumstances to them? However easy it might seem, don't be tempted to do this over the phone as you won't have any record of the conversations. Keep your discussion with SP in writing.

If you don't get any joy, you might want to seek legal advice?

Broonster

nesssie1702 wrote: »

Off the top of my head: You shouldn't be liable for this at all, the developer should and he should also be responsible for the fourth, unoccupied house. However, as far as SP are concerned, you're the named individual and they'll have you down as the account holder, unless you've informed them differently.

When you've contacted Scottish Power, have you done so in writing to explain the circumstances to them? However easy it might seem, don't be tempted to do this over the phone as you won't have any record of the conversations. Keep your discussion with SP in writing.

If you don't get any joy, you might want to seek legal advice?

Hmmm, yeah, might be right there. We have told Scottish Power about it, but only over the phone (not much joy there then, as you can imagine! :rolleyes: )

I think it might be an idea for us to write to SP, getting the other 2 occupiers to also sign it, explaining that the developer should be the named account holder until he makes arrangements otherwise, so that he's responsible for the outstanding amount. Hopefully that will work but, as you say, at least we'll then have a written record of it.

I don't really want to go down the road of paying to get legal advice TBH, unless I really have to.

Alan_Vickers

Was the subject of the running costs of the shared septic tank covered in any discussions/correspondence when negotiations for the purchase of the house took place?

Fire_Fox

In your letter you should refer to every conversation, by date and named contact, that you have ever had with SP. By not refuting the references they will have accepted you have previously advised them that you dispute the bill. Do you know how SP got your name and address as the bill payer? Was this information passed on by the developer?

I would point out tho that you are probably jointly and severally liable for the bill - i.e. SP can chase any one individual named on a bill for the full amount if one or more others will not pay. What happens if you get a dodgy neighbour further down the line? I think you should go back to your conveyancer and ask them for a free consultation, as this should all have been sorted and explained to you before you bought the property.

Broonster

Alan_Vickers wrote: »

Was the subject of the running costs of the shared septic tank covered in any discussions/correspondence when negotiations for the purchase of the house took place?

The only mention of it was that the developer would set up a factor to oversee this. Each of the 4 occupiers would then pay a quarter share (plus the factors cut probably) to the appointed factor. The developer has told me that his lawyer told him that the development is too small for a factor now, with it being only 4 houses!

spiro

One thing you dont mention is if the tank is supplied by a metered or unmetered supply and were the power comes from. If you are unsure and want to PM me the MPAN (13 digit part of S number on bill) I can check this for you. Suggest you need to get a contract drawn up between the four householders detailing the payment agreement and any penalties and then provide a copy to your supplier so that you all become jointly liable. Suggest 1st point of contact for this may be the solicitor who acted for you on the purchase because they should have ensure something was in place.

Broonster

spiro wrote: »

One thing you dont mention is if the tank is supplied by a metered or unmetered supply and were the power comes from. If you are unsure and want to PM me the MPAN (13 digit part of S number on bill) I can check this for you. Suggest you need to get a contract drawn up between the four householders detailing the payment agreement and any penalties and then provide a copy to your supplier so that you all become jointly liable. Suggest 1st point of contact for this may be the solicitor who acted for you on the purchase because they should have ensure something was in place.

It's definitely on a metered supply from Scottish Power.

We sent off a letter to SP last night and asked them to change the account holder name to the developer until such times as the last house is complete & sold. At that point, we've asked that all 4 occupiers' names are put on the account, so all are jointly liable. We've also explained in the letter that all 3 occupied households are fully paid & up-to-date with payments, have all set up direct debits for the same amounts to cover furture usesage, which just leaves the developer's share outstanding. I kinda hope that they (SP) see sense in this case and can then pursue the developer!!

ballynoran

Your tank has an electrical supply, so it is a sewage treatment plant, not a septic tank.

Sewage treatment plants require emptying on a regular basis - usually every 3 months for a 4 house model, but it depends on the type. They also require a 6 monthly service by a British Water Accredited engineer. The electricity bill is normally the smallest expense/year for running a plant.

These bills should have been explained by the developer, who should also have given everyone a copy of the 'Operating Manual' for the plant. By Law, he should also have placed a notice in each house of your responsibilities for the plant. He should also have given everyone a copy of the mandatory 'Consent to Discharge' that was issued by either SEPA or the Environment Agency. Maintenance of the plant is a 'Condition' of this Consent and without it, you cannot use the plant.

It seems to me that your developer has kept a lot of information to himself and you must obtain a copy of both the Consent and the Operational Manual, as without maintenance, your plant will soon fail and you are then in trouble!

If you want to find out which type of plant you have, please send me a message by clicking on 'Ballynoran' and I will do my best to help you.

allybee101

Ballynoran is correct.
You will need to have your STP serviced - they do not run forever.
You will need a Discharge Consent from SEPA. The developer should have this - usually building control will not sign off a development without seeing it (certainly the case in England - I'm presuming you're over the border if electric provider is SP).
Finally, a lot of housing developments like this set up a management company to administer costs for maintenance, electric etc. It means that a consent variation is not required every time someone sells a property etc to change details on the permit.

This is all from an Emglish/Welsh perspective. So things may be different in Scotland, but principles should be the same.
Hope it's all sorted.

brewerdave

This thread should really be locked - 18 months between #8 and #9 ...then another 8 months between #9 and #10 !!