First-time buyer advice for a poker player

Timelord6

Hello,
I am seeking some general advice on how to proceed as I look to buy a flat in around 6 months time. I currently rent a house with two of my friends, but feel that I would like to move out on my own.

I am in what I expect to be quite an unusual position as in 6 months time I will have graduated from my undergraduate degree and will aim to pursue a career as a professional poker player. I have been playing poker (primarily on the internet) for over 3 years now, with last year being the first year I have closely recorded my results in which I earned approximately $120k. I have saved money which could be used for a deposit towards a flat which in 6 months time I hope to be around £70k.

I know very little about mortgages, but I assume that me having no recognised employment status means that I won't be a very good candidate. Professional gamblers pay no income tax (lucky me!) and therefore are not self-employed. I can of course continue to pay my N.I. contributions, will this help? Also, poker earnings are obviously very volatile and therefore its difficult to predict earnings. For example, break-even or losing months are very common over a year and are not likely to give much confidence to a mortgage lender!

Having casually looked at some two bedroom flats in the Brighton & Hove area I predict I will be looking to buy a flat valued at around £200k and I assume being able to put down a large deposit will work in my favour.

I was planning to see a mortgage advisor at some point, but thought I would see if anyone on these forums had any advice first. Do I have any hope of getting a mortgage with my current situation, especially in the current economic climate? Is there anything I should be doing now to make me a better candidate? Should I just continue to rent and save up enough money to buy a property outright?

Thanks for reading.

amcluesent

Can't see any mortgage provider giving you a penny piece TBH.

Why don't you take your winnings to Vegas and try your skills on the no-limit tables? You could some back a millionaire!

pianorave

You are pretty much screwed with your plan at the moment. I am a poker player myself (22 years old) and have been playing for 3 year and could quite easily support myself off it.. however I have decided against doing so.

The reasons were:

1) Although I like poker at the moment still, I know I will start disliking it a lot if I play it professionally for several years. At this point if I want to quit poker and look for another career I will be in a horrible situation with no work experience to show. This will really screw you over.

2) As mention you WILL NOT get a mortgage as a professional poker player, you will be lucky to even rent another place without a student loan to back you up.

3) In a relationship it will be a big drawback for most women to have a husband that does not have a stable income.. especially if you have children. Playing poker to support your entire family is something that is very risky and will take someone who is very supportive and understanding to how the variance of poker works.



So my advise to you.

Get a small part-time job. Even like a 10 hour a week job.. whatever. That will still be a stable £60 a week income.. this can make a massive difference (for any future career choices and psychologically also). And doing 2 hours of work a day you will not even notice it.

I then advise not buying a house at the moment, especially considering you age also. Simply rent a place on your own for now, with even a small job you will find it easy to rent a place and you could do this for many years. Why exactly do you need to buy a house, I see no point when you do not have a family??

Come the time you get a girlfriend and want to settle down into a house you will hopefully have a lot of savings.. possibly even enough to buy a house straight out, at the very least significantly reduce your mortgage amount. Your girlfriend will likely have a job.. so you will have your small job and her job to go towards a mortgage.. with your poker playing earnings which you will then have evidence of with several years of bank statement statistics and the reduced mortgage amount you might then be able to get one. If not you can either save for a bit longer (you will be raking it in renting a small place with both of you earning) then buy a house straight out.. or perhaps then look at getting a normal job.

silvercar

Ideal candidate for a self-certificated mortgage, I would have thought. You would only get a low LTV possibly 60-70% and you will pay a high rate for the privilege, but it probably can be done. See a mortgage broker who will know who will genuinely allow self-certified mortgages.

Timelord6

pianorave wrote: »

You are pretty much screwed with your plan at the moment. I am a poker player myself (22 years old) and have been playing for 3 year and could quite easily support myself off it.. however I have decided against doing so.

The reasons were:

1) Although I like poker at the moment still, I know I will start disliking it a lot if I play it professionally for several years. At this point if I want to quit poker and look for another career I will be in a horrible situation with no work experience to show. This will really screw you over.

2) As mention you WILL NOT get a mortgage as a professional poker player, you will be lucky to even rent another place without a student loan to back you up.

3) In a relationship it will be a big drawback for most women to have a husband that does not have a stable income.. especially if you have children. Playing poker to support your entire family is something that is very risky and will take someone who is very supportive and understanding to how the variance of poker works.



So my advise to you.

Get a small part-time job. Even like a 10 hour a week job.. whatever. That will still be a stable £60 a week income.. this can make a massive difference (for any future career choices and psychologically also). And doing 2 hours of work a day you will not even notice it.

I then advise not buying a house at the moment, especially considering you age also. Simply rent a place on your own for now, with even a small job you will find it easy to rent a place and you could do this for many years. Why exactly do you need to buy a house, I see no point when you do not have a family??

Come the time you get a girlfriend and want to settle down into a house you will hopefully have a lot of savings.. possibly even enough to buy a house straight out, at the very least significantly reduce your mortgage amount. Your girlfriend will likely have a job.. so you will have your small job and her job to go towards a mortgage.. with your poker playing earnings which you will then have evidence of with several years of bank statement statistics and the reduced mortgage amount you might then be able to get one. If not you can either save for a bit longer (you will be raking it in renting a small place with both of you earning) then buy a house straight out.. or perhaps then look at getting a normal job.

Thanks for the reply, my post was really just thoughts I have had over recent months, I have no definite plan as yet.

I agree with many of the points you made, I also don't see myself doing poker forever and this is obviously something that I really should take into account when making financial decisions for the future.

In terms of doing this as a job for at least the short term, for me this is a no-brainer. If I was not at university for half this year I would be aiming to make $200k which I don't think is unrealistic. If I was to look for a 'normal' job I would be qualified for a salary of around £20k. I also love playing poker (yes, I may lose interest later) and would probably play for 100 hours a month if professional, compared to 150+ hours in other jobs.

I have looked into part-time jobs, but these are likely to be very undesireable types of jobs and its going to be difficult to motivate myself when I can earn 10x the hourly rate doing something else that I enjoy more.

Anyway, I dont want this to be an argument of the pros and cons of being a professional poker player. You have given me some things to think about, and it seems it would be best to just rent and continue to save.

lostinrates

A friend of DH is a pro poker player and I've known a few people who bt on horses for a living. IME they seem to kep their fixed assests small (e.g. quite humble properties) presumably buying outright or near so and keeping as liquid as possible with most of their 'worth' to have it to gamble with? DH's friend rents in a nice area of London rather than buys, and is single....I think the lifestyle probably favours the single person who likes cash more than other assets!

Timelord6

lostinrates wrote: »

A friend of DH is a pro poker player and I've known a few people who bt on horses for a living. IME they seem to kep their fixed assests small (e.g. quite humble properties) presumably buying outright or near so and keeping as liquid as possible with most of their 'worth' to have it to gamble with? DH's friend rents in a nice area of London rather than buys, and is single....I think the lifestyle probably favours the single person who likes cash more than other assets!

Sorry if I'm being dumb, but who's DH?

socrates

Continue to rent and save.

Brighton is one of the places where landlords are offering very good deals for renting larger houses - have heard of 2 months rent free.

Go and find a nice big house offer silly money for it - perhaps even pay 3 months rent in advance - get all the people you currently live to move in as well - you will end up paying the same money and having a better standard of living accommodation. Then save as hard as you can and if you want - buy a place outright later on.

lostinrates

Timelord6 wrote: »

Sorry if I'm being dumb, but who's DH?

DH = dear/damn husband