Lloyds TSB Identity Fraud

fallen121

Here are some sad facts about ID fraud:

• The Government have put the fear of God into everyone with their talk of "anti terrorism" and "money laundering". This is used as an excuse for companies to harvest and retain far more of our personal information than they actually need.

• You can't so much as rent a video without entrusting personal data to companies whose procedures for securing that data result in it often being left in open view/put out with general rubbish etc.by some spotty youth with no company loyalty who will have moved onto another job by the time anyone realises that he doesn't know what a shredder is and cares even less. But if that data is misused then it is YOUR fault for renting the video in the first place!

• In the interest of saving money companies are outsourcing call centres and personal data to third world countries where the average wage is $30 a month and where corruption is rife. If the person dealing with your Bank account earns less than what they see you spend on Sky TV, is it any wonder that they might be prone to temptation as far as selling your data is concerned?

• In the interests of saving money, companies have switched to automated telephone systems which make it easy for the fraudster, because there is no human element of suspicion involved. But these same systems make it impossible for victims of crime to get help or advice when they need it.

• Identity theft sites basically tell you all the same thing - case histories of victims, links to Credit Reference Agency websites etc.

• Credit Reference Agency websites have a primary objective, and that objective is not to help you, but to sell you a "plan" which involves you signing up for supposedly "free" credit reference reports which require either a continuous credit card authority or direct debit so that you can be charged a monthly fee - not much help if you are a victim of identity theft and have had all your accounts and credit lines shut down. The links to the statutory £2 reports tend to be obscure and well hidden. Why pay £2 when they can sting you for £9.99 a month for the same information!

• Indentity theft "helplines" are a con. Even those run by Credit Reference Agencies. The testimonials from previous "victims of crime" speak in glowing terms about the help they offer. However, phone their premium rate number at your peril. Be prepared to listen to automated messages spoken very slowly by a woman who repeats herself several times and whose only real advice is to direct you back to the Credit Reference Agency websites. By the time you realise that "Press 3 if you have been a victim of identity theft" really means "so we can extort another 58p + VAT from your phone bill" it is too late.

vet8

I think a major problem is that banks and CC companies do too much by telephone. I am a luddite and still like to write letters, my bank is always asking for my phone number, but I will not divulge it, that way I have printed proof of what I have said and what has been said back.

I personally find it incredible that the bank can change someone's address etc. after a phone call, it could have been from anyone and it your case it was!

broken_3

my card was recently stolen and money taken out of my account. because it was at a cashpoint the bank are saying i must have had the PIN with the card and are therefore refusing to to reimburse the money. does anybody have any ideas how i can go about getting this money back? it was half my monthly salary!

thanks for any help!

broken

N79

broken wrote: »

my card was recently stolen and money taken out of my account. because it was at a cashpoint the bank are saying i must have had the PIN with the card and are therefore refusing to to reimburse the money. does anybody have any ideas how i can go about getting this money back? it was half my monthly salary!

thanks for any help!

broken

Broken - you will get a better response if you start your own thread. When you do, please can you state whether the fraudulant withdrawal made you overdrawn?

fallen121

broken wrote: »

my card was recently stolen and money taken out of my account. because it was at a cashpoint the bank are saying i must have had the PIN with the card and are therefore refusing to to reimburse the money. does anybody have any ideas how i can go about getting this money back? it was half my monthly salary!

thanks for any help!

broken

I am sorry you have had this problem but as you will have concluded if you read the rest of this thread, Banks do seem to take every opportunity to blame things on the customer!

There are lots of ways that a thief can get you PIN number, such as leaning over your shoulder at an ATM etc. I don't think it's fair to say you MUST have had the PIN with the card (although I am sure this probably does happen!).

Many ATM machines now have cameras - can you not take this up with the Bank who own the ATM to see if the person making the withdrawal was someone known to you?

Did you report the card stolen and get a case number (Bank) or Incident number (Police)? And how long after the card was stolen did you report the theft as the Bank should have cancelled the card immediately? If so how come the card was still active when the thief came to use it?

If your communication with the Bank so far has just been face to face, it might be worth finding out about the Bank's complaints procedure as the Banking Ombudsman won't even consider a complaint like this until you have exhausted the Bank's own complaints procedure.

If you have an understanding Bank Manager he might be willing to give you an overdraft to tide you over until this is sorted out.

Good luck!

Snooze

This kind of story is nothing new I'm afraid. Without going into detail let me just say that I have a fairly extensive knowledge of the "underworld" and although it won't be any consolation to you, what you have experienced is pretty minor and could've been a LOT worse.

There are numerous sites on the net where one can buy pretty much anything they want and not surprisingly CC details are high on the list. A typical UK cvv2 info will cost you $3.50 and for that you get what you describe - the card number, name, expiry and cvv2 off the back. If you want the DOB with it then add another couple of dollars, and for a few dollars more you get all the above but it includes your bank name, account no., sort code, how long you've had the account, your spouse's name and DOB, your work details and address + phone no., and how long you've worked there - this info is known as "fullz".

So where does all this info come from?

Cvv2s generally come from websites that have poor security; it's very easy to hack into the billing info on most non-commercial sites. To get the DOB is very easy - either from using one of the services on the carding sites that will look up the person's DOB for you from a Government office insider or NHS records, or of course from somewhere like a car hire company that can pull your DOB from your DL number. (By the way, DL details also sell for good money too because they can be used on "novelty" DLs which will fully verify if ever checked).

Fullz info is even easier to source : loan applications and you'd be amazed at what goes on behind the scenes in these places, I tell you.

The banks and CC companies have got you all over a barrel. If your accounts get emptied they just give you the standard "you must've given your pin to someone" reply as that's their get out of jail free card. They KNOW that all the stuff I've described above goes on but they can't do !!!!!! about it hence why you get the blame. They KNOW in 99% of the times it isn't you that's responsible.

Solutions? Yes :

1. Don't use cards, pay for everything in cash. Easier said than done but if you want to remove the risk that's what you've got to do. At the minimum, NEVER use your card to buy stuff off the net as you may as well just publicly post your full account details and passwords all over the net. Try not to use your cards in shops either as these can nearly be as bad - petrol stations being the worst (they install modified pin-pads that capture your pin).

2. Never apply for loans, period. The info you need to give on the app is without a doubt the most damaging if it gets into the wrong hands.

3. Never hire vehicles. Not only do they get your full DL info which includes your DOB, but they also get your card details - the perfect recipe for most "basic" fraud.

4. Internet banking - NO NO NO NO NO. NEVER touch it. If you INSIST on having to use it (why, I don't know :rolleyes: ) use a bank that uses PIN Sentry and register for VBV and/or MCSC (Verified by Visa / Mastercard Secure Code) and keep an eye on alerts about your VBV/MCSC password being changed/reset because that's the sign that someone's trying to empty your account.

In short, don't use the internet for anything money related and for day-to-day uses always use cash wherever possible.

Rob

broken_3

thanks heaps - as you can tell i'm new to this! will try that. i didn't go overdrawn from the withdrawals but i'm in a mess with my money now!

broken_3

thanks - i think i will try the formal complaints route. i cancelled the card straight away but the odd thing is that the amount they took was more than the daily limit from a cashpoint anyway :-s

thanks for your advice.

I_know_my_ABC_and_my_CMYK

fallen121 wrote: »

Thanks to everyone whose been reading this. Writing about it helps a bit. When this kind of thing happens to you, suddenly nobody wants to have anything to do with you anymore. And that includes everyone on MSE. Because despite all the dozens of you reading this, not one person has posted a reply or sent a PM or anything. It's like no-one cares.

It amuses me a bit that people post on here about all sorts of things like how their marriages are going down the pan, how depressed they are about their life situation and things which really aren't exactly money saving at all and they get DOZENS of replies, suggestions, messages of support. As well as the usual negative comments, questions about whether or not it is a wind up, unhelpful suggestions, outright rudeness. But you know, we haven't even had that.

IDENTITY THEFT IS A VERY REAL THREAT TO EACH AND EVERY MONEYSAVER.

Hopefully, if you follow all the advice on this site, then it will NEVER happen to you. But if (God forbid) it ever does, I assure you you will never feel as isolated, alone and friendless in your life. You will spend endless hours on the phone talking first to automated call answering systems, then to underpaid office juniors who will put you on hold before passing you to supervisors whose will probably not even talk to you before you agree to buy identity theft insurance. EVERYONE will blame YOU. You will spend hours waiting in for police officers who will do little other than take a statement an issue you with an incident number.

Lloyds are trying to blame my husband for all of this, saying that the information must have been gleaned from an internet transaction, or he must have lost his card somewhere.

Conversation with my husband yesterday goes a bit like this:

Fraud department: "Well you must have let someone have access to your card as they seem to know the three digit number on the back"
My husband "Have you never tried to rent a car? They take photocopies of your driving licence and the front and back of your credit card."
Fraud department: "Well you could have gone to another company"
My husband "That is the only rental company in my town. It was arranged by my insurance company. I was initially told I wouldn't need to pay anything. When I get down there, suddenly they need the card 'for insurances purposes'. What was I to do? Without a car I can't work"

My husband also questioned Lloyds about why they didn't contact him for 12 days

My husband: "Why did you wait 12 days to contact me? Why didn't you refuse to change the address until you had confirmed it was me by calling me on the number you already had listed on your records?""
Fraud department: "The man who changed your address knew all your details. He seemed plausible"
My husband: "Plausible enough that you wrote down that he appeared to be suspicious on the record. Then he maxes out the card buying computers, thousands of pounds worth of DVDs and mobile phones and still you don't contact me!"
Fraud department "It is not our policy to contact customers by phone where suspected fraud occurs. We might have been talking to the fraudster"
My husband: "But you called me yesterday to alert me to the fraud!"

And so it goes, on and on. Yesterday my husband went to the car rental place where they told him the previous Manager "had left the company". When he asked about how they go about destroying the photocopies they make of the driving licence and front and back of the credit cards he was told "You must be imagining it. It has never been our policy to photocopy the font and back of credit cards and driving licences. You must be thinking of another company. Please leave the store as you are being rude to the staff. If you have a complaint please take it up with our Head Office".

He told me "If this was the USA and I had a gun, I would shoot someone. This is like a bad movie. Suddenly nobody believes me. Suddenly this is all my fault. I can't work, I can't get credit, my clients want nothing to do with me. Everything I have worked for is gone."

Neither of us have eaten in 2 days.

Did I mention our boiler broke down last night? We have no heating and no hot water. And every plumber we've phoned says they won't touch our British Gas boiler with a bargepole because it's a Combi that needs a computer to analyse it and the parts are as expensive as hell.

We've now been waiting in for the police to arrive for over 4 hours "They don't do appointments" apparently. Nobody gives a !!!!.

Hi Fallen

I've only just found this thread of yours. I have to agree LTSB are pretty usless at the best of times but unfortunately ID fraud does happen. I myself have a fraud investigation in progress as my Paypal account was hacked into and my visa card used to buy what looks like a gun. I'm still waiting on this ut I have had to change all my cards and pin numbers and secret questions and so on and so on, not just with Paypal but my bank rquested it also when I informed them of the fraud - my ank is Co-Op bank, I ceased banking with LTSB after they almost forced me into brankruptcy in 2005 through their imcomptence. I hope you get all this sorted out soon, its a terrible feeling that someone has been in your account and taken your money, it's very hard to describe and its a feeling you cannot understand having.

vet8

Cancel your card right away.

I had money taken from my cc. I think they got the details from a website I bought something from. They start taking small amounts then go for larger figures so cancel the card now.