Child Maintenance (CSA) questions (merged)

calleyw

Spendless wrote:

I think a lot of people forget that kids cost in more ways than the clothes they wear or food they eat.

I've already said that 2 kids cost me,even if someone was paying for the above items. Having more children would definately cost me more than having 2, even if we kept same size house. I'd need more beds and bedding for , extra wardrobes to keep clothes in, have to buy bigger table with enough seats. I'd have more loads to put in washing machine, and more ironing so my electric bill would be higher.

Yes it does a cost a bit more when there are extra people in the house that is by most people would be taken for granted.

So you are saying that one child alone uses £250 worth of resources, food and electric and gas and clothes per month. As I don't even consume that much electric and gas per month and I am home all day. And have a 3 bedroom house to run.

But surely you as mother have to take half of the finanical reponsibility which is what the dad does by paying throught CSA(I know people say it is not about halves but the abscent parent is not and should not be paying for everything). As the father did not create the child alone.

Say abscent parent pays £250 a month for one child and you will get child benefit, CTC and WTC if your income is low enough which could be another what £100 a month. So you are now saying that the child uses £350 of resources and that is with no money from yourselves. And for good measure you throw in another £100 a month in the pot. So now we are saying a child is using £450 a month in resources on top of any other other bills you have. Does it really? And I asking that as a serious question how a child costs £450 to run a month(make they sound like a car now.)

The CSA money is not there to pay your entire rent/mortgage it is suppose to help with the extra that you might need to pay as you rent a slightly bigger place so more money.

But from what some of the parents with care are saying is that expect the ex to fund there lifestyle for them. To pay there rent, electric, gas and council tax bills for them. Which they would have anyway all be it a bit smaller and they would have to pay anyway if they lived alone.

I wonder who they would get to fund them if they lived a lone. The state, there mum and dad.

Sorry if people think I am being flippant. But I am just so interested how children do cost so much to run. As having my stepson here would add I reckon between £50 and a £100 a month in food,electric,gas, water bills and clothes. Most of that would be covered by child benefit and CTC if we got it. As he hardly eats anything, should not need new clothes every month. And running the washing machine one /two extra times a week.

I know people who have brought 3 children up on just a few thousand a year. It was way before WTC and CTC and all they got was child benefit for the three. And if you had not guessed that was my parents and they managed without all the extra help people today get.


Yours

Calley

Spendless

calleyw wrote:

Yes it does a cost a bit more when there are extra people in the house that is by most people would be taken for granted.

So you are saying that one child alone uses £250 worth of resources, food and electric and gas and clothes per month. As I don't even consume that much electric and gas per month and I am home all day. And have a 3 bedroom house to run.

But surely you as mother have to take half of the finanical reponsibility which is what the dad does by paying throught CSA(I know people say it is not about halves but the abscent parent is not and should not be paying for everything). As the father did not create the child alone.

Say abscent parent pays £250 a month for one child and you will get child benefit, CTC and WTC if your income is low enough which could be another what £100 a month. So you are now saying that the child uses £350 of resources and that is with no money from yourselves. And for good measure you throw in another £100 a month in the pot. So now we are saying a child is using £450 a month in resources on top of any other other bills you have. Does it really? And I asking that as a serious question how a child costs £450 to run a month(make they sound like a car now.)

The CSA money is not there to pay your entire rent/mortgage it is suppose to help with the extra that you might need to pay as you rent a slightly bigger place so more money.

But from what some of the parents with care are saying is that expect the ex to fund there lifestyle for them. To pay there rent, electric, gas and council tax bills for them. Which they would have anyway all be it a bit smaller and they would have to pay anyway if they lived alone.

I wonder who they would get to fund them if they lived a lone. The state, there mum and dad.

Sorry if people think I am being flippant. But I am just so interested how children do cost so much to run. As having my stepson here would add I reckon between £50 and a £100 a month in food,electric,gas, water bills and clothes. Most of that would be covered by child benefit and CTC if we got it. As he hardly eats anything, should not need new clothes every month. And running the washing machine one /two extra times a week.

I know people who have brought 3 children up on just a few thousand a year. It was way before WTC and CTC and all they got was child benefit for the three. And if you had not guessed that was my parents and they managed without all the extra help people today get.


Yours

Calley

Calley, neither me or my husband has any children other than to each other and we are together and live in same house.

Prior to having kids I did think that they only cost as in food and clothes, but my kids cost me in restricting my earnings. It costs me more in mortgage for a bigger house than what I had on my own. It costs me in resources as I am in the house for longer. Lights are on for longer, heating on for longer, you need more hot water to wash more dishes and so on. There is a lot of hidden costs that I never realised were there till I had children of my own.

Wouldn't having your stepson mean a bigger mortgage as you'd need a 2 bed place.

It totally depends on your earnings as to whether tax credits make a difference. Due to hubbys company car we have a take home pay equivalent to someone on about £5K less than hubby but for the purposes of tax credits we have to add on £7K for benefits in kind. Putting the 2 together means that tax credits gives us money based on £12,000 more than we actually have a take home pay for. Hubby could earn £10,000 a year more or £10K a year less it wouldn't change our amount. I have spoken out on this site many times before about certain elements of tax credits including the above and that maintainance is not taken into account when working entitlement out.

I see both sides. A friend of mine is a single mum and whilst her hubby and new wife sees that she has a fortune from him each week and can afford to go abroad every year, she sees that they have a joint income of over £50,000 and resents every penny they pays out.

pandas66

calleyw wrote:

Yes it does a cost a bit more when there are extra people in the house that is by most people would be taken for granted.

So you are saying that one child alone uses £250 worth of resources, food and electric and gas and clothes per month. As I don't even consume that much electric and gas per month and I am home all day. And have a 3 bedroom house to run.

But surely you as mother have to take half of the finanical reponsibility which is what the dad does by paying throught CSA(I know people say it is not about halves but the abscent parent is not and should not be paying for everything). As the father did not create the child alone.

Say abscent parent pays £250 a month for one child and you will get child benefit, CTC and WTC if your income is low enough which could be another what £100 a month. So you are now saying that the child uses £350 of resources and that is with no money from yourselves. And for good measure you throw in another £100 a month in the pot. So now we are saying a child is using £450 a month in resources on top of any other other bills you have. Does it really? And I asking that as a serious question how a child costs £450 to run a month(make they sound like a car now.)

The CSA money is not there to pay your entire rent/mortgage it is suppose to help with the extra that you might need to pay as you rent a slightly bigger place so more money.

But from what some of the parents with care are saying is that expect the ex to fund there lifestyle for them. To pay there rent, electric, gas and council tax bills for them. Which they would have anyway all be it a bit smaller and they would have to pay anyway if they lived alone.

I wonder who they would get to fund them if they lived a lone. The state, there mum and dad.

Sorry if people think I am being flippant. But I am just so interested how children do cost so much to run. As having my stepson here would add I reckon between £50 and a £100 a month in food,electric,gas, water bills and clothes. Most of that would be covered by child benefit and CTC if we got it. As he hardly eats anything, should not need new clothes every month. And running the washing machine one /two extra times a week.

I know people who have brought 3 children up on just a few thousand a year. It was way before WTC and CTC and all they got was child benefit for the three. And if you had not guessed that was my parents and they managed without all the extra help people today get.


Yours

Calley

I am so glad you can quote the actual figure that single parent families recieve and how we should spend it.
But for what its worth and to you Calley will be lost because you can quote what goes financially, but I have put a lot more than money can buy. Whilst your sat in your 3 bedroomed house all day I raised 2 children. I have a 3 bedroomed house but there are 3 of us. I need room for all the electrical items they need and all the suitcases they live out of.
I can hardly type what responce I'd like to send to you, but as you state you never had children so most of it will also be lost on you
Swimming lessons do you know the cost element? Travel to and from, time and associated items to attend?
Karate lessons
Music lessons
Beaver/cub attendence all of theses activities where attended by my children and non are free, even when they went to Sunday school they have a collection plate. A trip to the park kicking leaves was one of most treasured outings but to do that now they are 13/15 is a little childish year after year, yes they do want theme park trips and why not.
I have on £250 per calender month from my ex husband and far more from me provided
full board and lodgings
taxi
all clothes, save a few Xmas items and a winter coat
shoes
outings
pockey money
tv for bedroom (each)
2 holidays a year with careful planing and saving
I am also honoured to be in their company.
I have read several of your other posts of how they will be getting £30 for Christmas and that wouldn't go anywhere near what mine would like. You can't get a decent board game each to spend even more time together. The true cost is higher obviously than you imagine it to be.
I am thankful you are not my ex's new wife, we would lock horns.
By the way I love your accusation to Spendless.

foreverskint

O.k let me try and wxplain why i have such resentment towards the CSA, Not towards maintenance pament per se.


I have two children and as a mother am the absent parent. My ex and I divorced amicably, dividing the proceeds from the sale of the property evenly, as his new wife already had a house and he and the children moved into that. I paid him an agreed amount of maintenance through a private arrangement, which was £300.00

I met my new partner a few months later, he had a daughter and was also a non resident parent and was paying his ex-wife £300.00 per month on a private arrangement.

My new partner & i moved intogether. I have never had access problems with my CHildren as my ex hubby and I had a very amicable arrangement. My partners ex however had some totally unfounded opnion that I was incapble of looking after her daughter and therefore would only allow access if my I was not present.

We were rehoused by the housing association and despite all the children were only allowed a one bed property. We had nothing in terms of furniture, beds etc and effectivly had to start all over again, but quickly in order to provide somewher the children could stay with us that was comfortable and respectable. ( we were terrified that if we didn't have all the necessary items ie fridge, beds etc we would access if the other parent heard.
So we got our selves immediatly into debt, adding more to the £10,000.00 we were paying off from my partners marriage (yes she left him with the debt)

We were forced into a situation that we were not happy with but for the sake of seeing the children we took on.

When my other half pushed for overnight visits with his daughter the trouble started. We having just discovered that I was pregnant, came home from christmas at my parents to discover a letter from the CSA.
Having heard all the horror stories, my partner and I decided to terminate the pregnancy. We went throught the assesment process and to our horror discovered that we had to pay nearly £400.00 to his ex for one child.

So we wer now paying out £700.00 per month before we had paid for any of our expenses. The CSA didn't make any allowances for the fact that there were two lots of maintenance leaving the household kitty.

With the stresses caused by our finances, dovorces and missing the children we both ended up off work for two months. We were told that we did not have to pay the full assesment as we would not be receiving sick pay from work.
However, we were checking our bank account and they took in one month over £1000.00 said to be back pay and a mistake on their part.
By now kmy partner was suicidal and I don't say that lightly. He was hardly seeing his daughter and we were flat broke and in debt all within 6 months of moving in together.

Whilst all of this was going on, my partners ex went to florida for a holiday with his daughter, taking her on a helocopter flight and a limo ride on top of the disney experience.

So please understand why some of us are so bitter. It isn't that we need to know how every penny is spent, but if does grate when on the one hand the basic necessities in life aren't affordable, yet holidays and weekends away, regulare trips to the hairdresser etc are affordable.

I now have another child and she wants for nothing, however nearly alll of it is from car boots and ebay. Whilst relations with the exes are better and we get to see all of the children, we still have no freedom from the shadow that is the csa. I never see a hairdresser for myself and rely on cutting my own hair and my partners. We are also expected to provide clothes and shoes here for the children to wear at weekends.

When all the children are here together we become a family of 6 with no extra help. We now live in a two bed small house and manage by camping out in the living fromm etc. through Old style I have learnt how to manage my money better and make food go further. However we never have money to give the children treats of trips out. Our 'weekends of Play' as it was put, are weekends of trying to entertain children who have no room to move, have few possesions of their own here due to an acute lack of space.
I never have the pleasures of taking them to theme parks or even the cinema.
However I do have the pleasure of teaching them the other side of the financial coin. How to budget, how to cook, not to expect huge expensive presents and holidays. In fact my children are grateful for what they get and would never ask for anything big and expensive. Infact if we spend more than £50.00 per child at christmas I would be surprised.

This year we scraped up enough money to buy a second hand tent and go camping this year. we had no money to go out for days whilst there, but had loads of fun, playing fottball etc, so much so the kids want to go back next year.

Bringing up children is not about how a finacial spreadsheet, how many clubs and activities they go to. Whether their clothes come from the right stores. What car you have. I've discovered through a situation, that it is about spending time with them, teaching them simple things like cooking and cleaning up afterthemselves, how to entertain themselves and each other.

At weekends our house if full of children and laughter. Not because we have weekend of play and no resposibilties, but beacause we have no money and spend all our time together at home and together.

pandas66

[Q
Bringing up children is not about how a finacial spreadsheet, how many clubs and activities they go to. Whether their clothes come from the right stores. What car you have. I've discovered through a situation, that it is about spending time with them, teaching them simple things like cooking and cleaning up afterthemselves, how to entertain themselves and each other.

At weekends our house if full of children and laughter. Not because we have weekend of play and no resposibilties, but beacause we have no money and spend all our time together at home and together.[/QUOTE]

I'm glad to have read your post so much, with reference to much of your post is the fact that I am understanding you aren't asking for justification on how the payment is used, more so if you have had children now and before to live with you know all the ins and outs of how at the best of times it runs smoothly but at the drop of a hat an unexpected bill does drop on the mat.
I realise that my children have had a reasonable standard of living but this wasn't so for a long time, this situation has been on going for nearly 13 years, my beef is why should I go cap in hand to A) the csa to prove so much information to get money from a person who created this family. and then later I once again have to justify to a 3rd party (known as 2nd family) in order to balance my money.
Time and time again my children did go without, when my ex husband put himself out of work and we received the princely sum of £7.37 for 15 months, tell me what I should spend that on 1st.Incidently he forgot to inform csa when he gained employment for 3 months, at a salary of approx £28,000, no penalty.
He has now emigrated and so deposited £70 on the 4th Oct. So I have now increased (again) and was in last Saturday morning and will be in this Sat morning for overtime, although in the balance this will be deducted for CTC/WT at a later date.
But at no time will I not be providing less than half, either with time or finances. Time with my kids is reduced though, but the ex is in America so he isn't hands on, could he pay me more now so I could be at home? If he had a concience perhaps he would but he has his 3rd or 4th family to think of!

jonimitchell

Hello there

My partner has one child who lives with his mother. The divorce came through some years ago and one of the outcomes was that my partner would pay just under £300 per month for the boy to the mother

'until he shall attain the age of 18 years or cease full time education, which ever shall be the earlier, or until further order' (quote from leagl document partner has)

The boy gave up full time education in Oct 04 (age 16½) and has since been working full time. He pays his mother £200 rent per month.

Anyway, my partner has continued paying the £300 every month but a year later, and as we are trying to get out of debt, wonder if he should still be doing it.

Any advice greatly appreciate it.

Thank you

helen21_2

No i think once a child leaves full time education maintenance stops. I take it this was when the court dealt with maintenance and not the csa?

jonimitchell

Thanks for the reply

CSA was never involved as the parents reached an amicable agreement.

Before it was finalised in court, my partner was paying £1000 a month (yes £1000) to his ex. No surprise we are in so much debt and she had £180k in savings at the time of the divorce

helen21_2

Well if the child is in full time employment i dont think he is classed as a dependant!

HappySad

I really feel for your friend AlleyCat. Your friends partner can live the high life while his children from his previous relationship can live a low life. Some people feel that their are intitled to all that extra stuff and feel that they have no money left for anything else. If he wants to say that he is buying the children stuff then he can always provide the receipt to show as proof which of course he cannot.