I am responsible for the recent closure of high street shops...

MrsE_2

rozeepozee wrote: »

If the make up manufacturers close, I guess I'll be responsible as I have just stopped buying it....

I'll be housebound:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Grade_A_Reject

nickmason wrote: »

I've been thinking about my (attempted at any rate) resolute defence of councils <snip>

Brilliant post. The difficulty is that now that the rot has started to set in in many town centres how do you reverse it? Free parking to entice shoppers back just gives carte blanche to office workers etc to fill up the car parks with their cars thus still denying those spaces to shoppers. The good shops as I said in my previous post appear to have deserted the town centres and, presumably due to cheap rent incentives, the units are now filled with "shops" which are only a step up from a car boot sale.

Quality shops need to be encouraged back into town centres to give shoppers a reason to go there. Not easy in the current economic climate.

Snooze

Without wishing to sound like our old regular doom-monger Mr. SquatNow, I think we need to get used to not seeing the High Street as we once knew it. I think window shopping will soon because a thing of the past because quite simply there won't be any windows left to shop from.

Imho there are 4 HUGE things that have killed the High Street over the past decade or so and I don't ever see the problem reversing.

Introducing problem 1 : Privatising public transport

We went from a reasonable-ish and cheapish public transport system to a privately owned one which is now all about profits and so not only does it cost you the price of a small island to get anywhere on it, you're also location restricted because all the backroad type routes have been axed due to them not being profitable, so unless you live on or near a major route, you're f***ed.

While all that was happening the price of cars were coming down like never seen before and it wasn't long before everyone had their own wheels which, whilst perhaps not being cheaper than using public transport, it was a small price to pay for the convenience, comfort and privacy factors.

Of course the Government and councils quickly realised all this and said "ooh we can't have that" and introduced .......

Introducing problem 2 : Parking charges

Putting all the environmental "cars are destroying the planet and need to be banned" bullsh!t aside, this next phase was purely about the councils filling their boots, and that they did, from charging anyone in a car a small fortune to park in or anywhere remotely near a town centre. This was working for them for a while until the big retailers started hearing all the whinging and whining from the car owners, so solved that problem by introducing .......

Introducing problem 3 : Out-of-town retail parks

So now they've got all the car users out of the town centre and shopping at out-of-town retail parks and all is well. However, Tesco now realise the potential here and also see that they could be having a nice big slice of the pie by selling anything and everything too so over the course of the next few years every city is getting a couple of "supacentres" from each of the supermarket brands and people soon realise that they don't need to go into town at all, nor do they need to visit the retail parks either, because they can get everything they need in one trip, in one "supacentre", with free parking and save a whole bunch of time as well.

While all this is going on in the real world, the biggest threat of all to the High Street is very rapidly gathering pace in the virtual world............

Introducing problem 4 : The internet

Worldwide retail markets (and more) at your fingertips 24/7 - what more could you want? No need to even leave the comfort of your armchair and battle with the masses trying to find a parking space, nor deal with snotty sales assistants that are having a bad day - that is of course if you manage to find a shop that actually has the item you want in stock, no worries about how you're going to get it to your car, and basically no hassle at all. Just browse at your leisure, check a few reviews, click a few buttons, make the payment and wait for the knock at your door in the next couple of days. Simple. And what's more, 99% of the time an item bought online will be cheaper than in-store, even including the delivery costs.

Even more worrying for the High Street is that as the older "internet technophobe" generation die off, ie. those few people left that do actually shop on the High Street because they either don't know how to work the internet or haven't even heard of it - the internet retail market will gain even more business, and I mean a LOT more, because everyone over the age of 8 now either has their own PC/laptop or has access to one and knows how to use it.

Our town centres are going to become VERY desolate in the coming years and I don't see them ever going back to how they once were. Public transport is never going to get any better; the councils will never significantly reduce or scrap town centre parking costs and even if they did, who would care as we all get everything off the internet now?

2p.

Rob

A._Badger

stephen163 wrote: »

Just to add my opinion to the car parking charging issue....

I'm not in the business of defending councils but surely car parking charges in town centres are justified by: 1) Lack of overall parking space, thus charging is the only fair way of allocating spaces, 2) As a means of controlling traffic congestion, especially during rush hours and busy shopping days.

<snipped>

If there is a lack of parking space, why do you suppose that is? Could it be that several generations of town planners have deliberately restricted the provision of adequate parking in towns across the country?

As for the 'controlling congestion' argument, we have seen that disproved both in London - where all penalising motorists has achieved is to raise money for a profligate authority - and in Manchester, where a wise electorate threw the proposal out.

If you don't believe councils use parking as a major source of revenue, I suggest you read the paper produced on the subject by the Association of British Drivers. This more than adequately demolishes the pretence.

You can find it on their website at http://www.abd.org.uk/

Grade_A_Reject

So once all the shops are abandoned and the town centre parking revenue streams dry up where will the shortfall come from? Increased council tax?

Who wants to pay increased council tax to live in a town where the town centre looks like one of the abandoned suburbs of Detroit?

stephen163

A._Badger wrote: »

stephen163 wrote: »

If you don't believe councils use parking as a major source of revenue, I suggest you read the paper produced on the subject by the Association of British Drivers. This more than adequately demolishes the pretence.

You can find it on their website at http://www.abd.org.uk/

Don't you realise that you are duty bound as a logical person to take everything the ABD say with a humungous heap of salt? They are one of the most biased organisations in the country and have consistently displayed this in their position on several other issues.

A._Badger

stephen163 wrote: »

A._Badger wrote: »

Don't you realise that you are duty bound as a logical person to take everything the ABD say with a humungous heap of salt? They are one of the most biased organisations in the country and have consistently displayed this in their position on several other issues.

No, I reserve that opinion for organisations like Transport 2000 - funded by the bus and train lobby and driven by half-baked eco-socialist dogma.

stephen163

Before reading the BDA propaganda, i'd suggest reading the government report that led to the further increased use of parking. The hard evidence used when coming up with recommendations from these reports is based upon the work of peer reviewed statistical evidence and the views of experts in the field.

This was the main one:
Operational Guidance for Local Authorities: Parking Policy and Enforcement
http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/tpm/tmaportal/tmafeatures/tmapart6/betterprkoperationalguid/parkingenforcepolicy.pdf

It is important that the public understand why an authority has
introduced CPE and what parking restrictions are in place. Motorists
and other road users need to be aware that parking enforcement
is about supporting wider transport objectives, in particular road
safety and keeping traffic moving, rather than raising revenue.

Please don't accuse councils of filling their pockets. Their responsibilities as a council are passed down to them from central government, who in turn are more worried about the BIGGER issues of urban traffic congestion and co-ordination of better public transport. These are MASSIVE issues.

You can only refute this if you can prove that car park charging does not reduce congestion and plays no role in an integrated transport strategy.

I would also point out that further proof that car park charging is not about revenue making is the fact that the parking enforcement has effectively been tendered out to private companies.

We live on one of the most densely populated islands in the world with a level of car ownsership far exceeding what any reasonable town planner would regard as a minimum limit for the planning of effective town centre traffic strategies. We NEED policies like this to avoid total carnage.

A._Badger

stephen163 wrote: »

Before reading the BDA propaganda, i'd suggest reading the government report that led to the further increased use of parking. The hard evidence used when coming up with recommendations from these reports is based upon the work of peer reviewed statistical evidence and the views of experts in the field.

<snipped>

That would be 'experts' like Professor David Begg, would it, or some of the other activist academics chosen by government to present the opinions politicians choose to hear?

I find it difficult to believe that someone can seriously cite statistical material or 'evidence' produced by this (or previous) governments with a straight face, given the repeated cynical mendacity exposed time and time again.

If you recall, the issue under discussion here is the death of the High St. If you have read the thread, you will have seen for yourself how many commenters have said that draconian parking regulations have been a contributory factor in their decisions to shop elsewhere.

You have not sought to deny this - simply asserted that such parking regulation is a 'Good Thing'.

As town centres across the country collapse into urban jungles, we will soon see who was right.

stephen163

First, I would recommend anyone looking into this issue to read the ABD website. See for yourself how the arguments they use are ill-founded, absurd and sensationalist. Boil it down and what you're left with is a blind denial of traffic congestion problems crippling the road networks, the chronic shortage of parking spaces in town/city centres and the requirement to adapt to achieve new environment targets.

The ABD are in the privileged position of not having to worry about these issues. Unfortunately, the government are.

Let us assess the net effect of adopting ABD policies, i.e., abolishment of car parking charges. First, traffic congestion would increase. Second, a grossly unfair system of first come first serve for parking spaces would now be in place.

I agree that the future of the town centre is precarious. However, how can we proceed with free parking when the roads are gridlocked? How can it be fair when it is well known that there aren't enough spaces to go around? I do feel sorry for local traders who did provide a convinient place to shop in the 80's and 90's, and to some extend in the 2000's. Now, unfortunately, they must adapt or die.

Or maybe the ABD does have a viable solution to save town centres? How about elevated roads?, Roads in tunnels? A device that makes your car disappear into thin air once it has parked?