I am responsible for the recent closure of high street shops...

stephen163

A._Badger wrote: »

That is precisely the sort of attack one has come to expect from the eco-Left. You attempt to call into question the ABD's interpretation of TFL's (almost certainly heavily massaged) figures by creating a straw man argument about the ABD's attutude to supposed anthropogenic global warming.

The only connection I can see is that it shows a mind willing to question the shiboleths of the eco-Left - but I doubt that was the inference you were drawing.

I'd estimate a 12 year old could go through each of the ABD claims and one by one expose them, beyond reasonable doubt, as ridiculous.

It is important that people realise the environmental position of the ABD. This was added to my previous post in addition to the point I tried to make - that the ABD selectively pick statistics from government reports and use them in complete isolation. That shows just one example - their website is rich with them and I would encourage people to read through and scrutinise their claims by cross reading the reports they 'reference'.

See the ABD for what they are, a small yet unduly influencial radical group of individuals with a flagrant disregard for scientific argument.

BTW, i'm not from the eco-left. I just like balance in debate.

lynzpower

Brightons parking is unsolveable (is that a proper word?) in the summer.
You would have to tarmac over a swathe of beach or knock down a few squares of regency buildings to create enough parking space for the demand.

Agreed, yet as you testify, Brighton is one of the most colourful and imaginitive areas due to the independent nature of the businesses there.

Im in brighton at least monthly and park in the NCP which amazingly isnt tooo badly priced. I can then walk on the front, have a nice lunch, mooch around the shops. In the summer I park on the college car park in the laines. Its hideous though, I cant believe brighton hasnt started a congestion charging policy it is rammed there all the time.

A._Badger

fc123 wrote: »

I don't get wound up about the parking thing anymore as it is an unsolvable problem.

It is in Brighton, I agree, but Brighton is a very special case. It isn't in some other towns and cities and that is where the problem lies.

The doctrinaire approach of the 'car is evil' brigade mandates a one-size-fits-all policy, so even relatively sleepy market towns and villages are forced by bodies higher up the legislative foodchain to impose 'solutions' which strangle local businesses. It's not done for any logical reason and it's not done based on local knowledge - it's done because it fulfils political goals and ambitions - when it it isn't being done simply to raise money.

I know anecdotal evidence rarely proves a case, but I saw an example of this myself in a small town in the South East a few years ago, where the charge for residents' season tickets in the local car park was increased by several hundred per cent over the course of three years.

Sick of this continual extortion (there was no on-street parking available) I tackled the leaderof the local council, asking him how he could justify it. He didn't even try. He openly admitted to me that his council needed to raise X amount of money and it knew that motorists in the town in question had no option but to pay.

He did, of course, blame national government for setting impossible targets, but the fact remained that the motorist was being used as a milk cow.

As an amusing footnote, it backfired on them. Local residents simply found other places to park their cars (often rather questionable ones) so the council lost the revenue it had started with - let alone its planned increases.

There's a moral in that.

neverdespairgirl

jyonda wrote: »

Obviously the internet beats the cr*p out of the dreary old high street full of discount stores and hoodies loitering outside fast food outlets but how do folks cope with the whole being at home when the man comes?

We have a shop-keeping neighbour who takes in all parcels.

Some people get stuff sent to work?

lostinrates

NickMason, as you know, I am familiar with your area, and I think in comparison to other local juristictions North Dorset doesn't do badly, so a little support to you from me. Unfortunately for you I do not vote in your area.

Re Congestion charge , well, when going to London for a day time (rare now) I happily use the train. In fact, in DH's zone 3 London base there is still some free on road parking, but there is no doubt that it is less quick and more expensive to rely on day time car in London. I like public transport...in the main. For evening jaunts, more common for me, I drive. This suits me as there are so few late night services out of London, and its rare I can arrange my early chores to be covered. I tend to drive up timing for when congestion charge zone ends and park in central London in an area where parking is free and non-permit holders in the evening then taxi/bus/walk back to my car and drive out. Obviously this forces me to be designated driver and to stay awake and alert. I don't foresee enough demand for improving late night service though.

Incidently its cheaper than the train for me to drive down to London and take an hour or two's London rate parking than it is for me to get a return train ticket. That can't be good for environmental policy, nor congestion. Car use OUT of city centres is extreme, and even with rural roads, often unnecessary. People drive less than a mile because they can and not because they need to. Safety on the roads often comes down to a matter of courtesy, I'd no sooner run through my neighbours house rather than walk, than I would speed past in a car rather than drive at appropriate speed, but as people get ruder so they drive with less coutesy. I drive, walk and ride horses on the roads, and have found myself in some pretty scary situations, but none so bad to force me off the roads in any of those situations.

fc123

lynzpower wrote: »

I cant believe brighton hasnt started a congestion charging policy it is rammed there all the time.

I think that as soon as Govt. says any city can have a congestion charge...they will be the first to set it up.

The bus service in this town is fantastic for locals. I hadn't used buses for years (in London I only used trains, never buses) and they are great.
Many drivers don't allow takeaways on board either.

jazzyjustlaw

nickmason wrote: »

I've been thinking about my (attempted at any rate) resolute defence of councils - not least by the news today of some pretty scandalous behaviour re housing - sorry, can't remember the council concerned.

One of the key reasons that this debate was resonating in my mind was the simple observation that I agree that - everything else being equal, and funding allowing - car parks should be free. (That's not to suggest that I disagree with all fees - planning, etc - for council services). My defence of charges was because it was the only way we could fund the statutory duties, rather than a philosophical belief that it's right.

I still stand by my defence of North Dorset District Council, and I still think that much of the fault for the complaints re council tax need to be laid at central government, who define the framework of duties, responsibilities and finances for local government. I also stand by my suggestion that the finances of local government are unfair and excessively opaque/misleading, and I look to future governments to rectify this.

What I realise I can't do is defend all councils because of my experiences, parochial as they are. I can't assume that the diligence of our officers is replicated in every town hall across the country. The evidence, sadly, suggests that to do so would be daft (just as the evidence suggests that to assume them all to be incompetent or worse, as some on here have implied, would be entirely unjustified).

It is also clear that a lot needs to be done to rescue us from this pickle, and that means that no stone should be left unturned, that we should look to even the most laudable councils to see what can or needs to be done. So I'm going to listen a bit more to some of these suggestions, rather than simply defending what is being done well. I am aware that the cost of having detailed knowledge is often a lack of big picture perspective. It might be we need to realise that to do x or y well is simply not enough; that we need to be doing something else entirely.

Is that the same North Dorset where the public toilets are a disgrace :A

nickmason

jazzyjustlaw wrote: »

Is that the same North Dorset where the public toilets are a disgrace :A

Yup. Public toilets are a nightmare - mainly because local people think that they're only used by out of towners, and "why should we pay for them".
Two, they're a discretionary service, so we don't have to provide - so guess what, we're cutting them (or selling them to other councils).

But good call. They have indeed been a pretty horrendous carbuncle (just off Gold Hill, etc)

fc123

nickmason wrote: »

Yup. Public toilets are a nightmare - mainly because local people think that they're only used by out of towners, and "why should we pay for them".
Two, they're a discretionary service, so we don't have to provide - so guess what, we're cutting them (or selling them to other councils).

But good call. They have indeed been a pretty horrendous carbuncle (just off Gold Hill, etc)

Councils don't need to provide public toilets, that's what Starbucks or MaccyD's are for.

Grade_A_Reject

jyonda wrote: »

Obviously the internet beats the cr*p out of the dreary old high street full of discount stores and hoodies loitering outside fast food outlets but how do folks cope with the whole being at home when the man comes?
I mean aren't like most people at work or school or something? Parents with young kids often leave the house too so what's the solution? Can a neighbour always be relied upon to be at home when the man comes then again when you get back from whatever it is that you were doing? Perhaps we should all have dropboxes instead of letterboxes?

It surprises me that Tesco haven't yet exploited the market potential in this. They already have a distribution network, spare capacity in lorries returning from stores to the distribution centres and 24 hour stores open in must towns. How easy would it be to be able to drop off and collect parcels 24 hours a day at your local supermarket.