Can you be ticketed without a paper ticket?

soolin

I can't see this covered in the FAQ so I thought I would ask. My local Council no longer use walking wardens instead they use camera cars that film the parking offence. However I don't know if they are still required to issue a ticket or not, or whether they just go back to a depot and have the offences transcribed and send fines out in the post.

Can anyone help please? Just to clarify this is local council and not private.

Crabman

Yes sadly they are allowed to serve PCNs by post now. It means you don't have the opportunity to take evidence at the time as you won't know about it for a few days. Even worse if you're visiting somewhere and have to go all the way back to take pictures etc. :rolleyes:

I thought there was a rule/guideline where service by post was allowed only where it wasn't practical to issue a ticket there and then, but I'm probably imagining that!

soolin

Oh well, cest La vie.

All my local post offices have single yellow lines outside which people park on as lots like me are ebayers and can't physically carry the amount of stuff we often have to post. I came out of the PO today to see a camera car just pulling away, so I asusme I will get a ticket. Is it 2 weeks now I have to wait for the bad news.

I'm either going to have to sell lighter things or rethink my posting strategy.

Crabman

There must be a timescale but I can't find it Neil B will probably know.

Also if you do get a PCN in the post, upload it all here (blank out personal details) and someone will take a look at it for compliance. The councils have to follow their rules too

peter_the_piper

Don't just pay up like a good girl, scan the pcn (both sides) and post on here, they may be incorrect and could invalidate them. Erase your vrm and any other identifying marks.

soolin

peter_the_piper wrote: »

Don't just pay up like a good girl, scan the pcn (both sides) and post on here, they may be incorrect and could invalidate them. Erase your vrm and any other identifying marks.

Ok thank you. If (more likely when) I get the ticket I will do that, although I was on a yellow line for approx 10 minutes so I knew I was taking a risk.

Neil_B

Crabman wrote: »

I thought there was a rule/guideline where service by post was allowed only where it wasn't practical to issue a ticket there and then, but I'm probably imagining that!

I used to think so. A bit of a popular misquote of DfT Guidance. It doesn't actually say that but I keep forgetting to read up on what it does say. I'll send it to you when I get a mo.

Neil_B

soolin wrote: »

My local Council no longer use walking wardens instead they use camera cars that film the parking offence.

You do like your sweeping statements don't you! Which Council are you claiming do this?
I don't know of any that have more than about 4 'smart' cars and they are the central large Boroughs. All still have CEOs.

Neil_B

Crabman wrote: »

There must be a timescale but I can't find it Neil B will probably know.

Nope. Another popular misconception and much the fault of Councils. There is no time limit on loading unless specifically signed to say so and included in the Trafiic Regulation Order.
Loading takes as long as loading takes - all kinds of scenarios including finding the right person to sign, carrying things to other floors, etc.

Many Councils claim an observation policy - i.e. 5 minutes and then CEO will issue a PCN.
In practical terms though what normally happens is that a PCN is issued, sometimes after that obs period and sometimes not. You then appeal the PCN and explain you were loading - at which point the Council say 'get stuffed'.

Councils will frequently tell you that time is limited when it isn't. As i said, loading takes the time that loading takes.
Neither is there any requirement for you to be seen loading, which they will also tell you. Oh yes, fair enough if i was taking that desk to the third floor and, in the 17 minutes it took, a PCN was issued - quite understandable - no problem - now you can cancel it !

For a Post Office, hmmmmm. They might argue that you know you are going to have to queue and it will take time - at which point you aren't really loading? I suppose the counter argument would be that the object was so heavy it had to be delivered that close to the despatch point? - ish.

Crabman

I meant a timescale in terms of the council sending a PCN, just like in alleged speeding cases the NIP must be sent to arrive within 14 days.

soolin

Neil_B wrote: »

You do like your sweeping statements don't you! Which Council are you claiming do this?
I don't know of any that have more than about 4 'smart' cars and they are the central large Boroughs. All still have CEOs.

Oh pardon me, unfortunately I do not work for parking enforcement and can only see what I read in the local council newspaper that they send round that state that the smart cars have proved to be a big improvement over the 'former' wardens. I live quite close to 2 schools and instead of the mini bus of wardens they used to deposit at the end of the road every other day at school time, I now see smart cars.

I am aware though that my council do not own all the ones they use and actually rent from an independent company as there have been complaints about the huge costs. Oh and yes I am in a London Borough.