Trains - Fare Evasion

robt_2

KingCheeseZombie wrote: »

I think what the poster was referring to is the fact that you have not made it 100% clear where the ticket was issued - was it in a penalty fare area - which is normally on a train or the platform-side of the train station?

Arguably, if you had passed beyond the barriers and where in a non-penalty fare area (ie. outside the station) they shouldn't be able to issue you with a ticket as they should have been manning the ticket barriers.

Again - this comes back to the point I made in a previous post about where does the jurisdiction for issuing tickets stop - are they entitled to follow you down the street until they catch you?! They are not the police and must surely have much more limitations to their powers than they/we think.

I agree - the OP has still not said despite being asked several times. They are either hiding something, not telling the whole story, or don't want to give further information for some reason.

OP - we can help you more if you tell us where you boarded the train (and got off)!

*Some* ticket inspectors can actually caution you and detain you until the police arrive. A ticket inspector is not the same as station staff/guard.

If the OP has told us everything then I suspect that there will be no fine and that it was just said to (quite rightly) scare her.

lauraza

robt wrote: »

I agree - the OP has still not said despite being asked several times. They are either hiding something, not telling the whole story, or don't want to give further information for some reason.

OP - we can help you more if you tell us where you boarded the train (and got off)!

*Some* ticket inspectors can actually caution you and detain you until the police arrive. A ticket inspector is not the same as station staff/guard.

If the OP has told us everything then I suspect that there will be no fine and that it was just said to (quite rightly) scare her.

Quite right! As a lone female I would rather not disclose that information thank you very much! I have been through National Rail website which states both my arrival and departure stations are not a penalty fares area. I was stopped well away from the ticket desk, platforms and the usual ticket gates, around 150 metres away in fact. I was in the public area of the station, just before the exit/entrance.

Dithering_Dad

robt wrote: »

I agree - the OP has still not said despite being asked several times. They are either hiding something, not telling the whole story, or don't want to give further information for some reason.

OP - we can help you more if you tell us where you boarded the train (and got off)!

*Some* ticket inspectors can actually caution you and detain you until the police arrive. A ticket inspector is not the same as station staff/guard.

If the OP has told us everything then I suspect that there will be no fine and that it was just said to (quite rightly) scare her.

Why do you keep asking for the location of this female's train station? Are you some sort of stalker?

KingCheeseZombie

lauraza wrote: »

Quite right! As a lone female I would rather not disclose that information thank you very much! I have been through National Rail website which states both my arrival and departure stations are not a penalty fares area. I was stopped well away from the ticket desk, platforms and the usual ticket gates, around 150 metres away in fact. I was in the public area of the station, just before the exit/entrance.

Then it seems that you were just unlucky enough to be picked from 100s of other commuters who passed through the barriers without being checked - it's a difficult situation - you only broke a rule once you had passed beyond the ticket barriers - the question is whether ticket officers jurisdiction passes beyond the designated ticket areas - as I say in my previous post, while some ticket inspectors have the authority (as pointed out by robt) to detain you until the police arrive - I am sure they do not have the authority to chase you out of the station until they catch you.

Personally, I don't think you will get any joy with the Independent Appeals Service - but you should try anyway. I have just sent a letter to the DfT about this issue (due to a similar experience) asking all these questions. As they are the ones who wrote the legislation - they will be the ones to tell you whether the rail companies are enforcing it correctly - and their word (in most cases) will be final.

robt_2

Dithering_Dad wrote: »

Why do you keep asking for the location of this female's train station? Are you some sort of stalker?

Because as I have said many times, it makes a difference. Why don't you go back to dithering :rolleyes:. Maybe you could tell me how I could possibly stalk someone who I don't actually know. No.... thought not. It is comments like this which make people not want to bother helping people. It has been stated multiple times that the location makes a difference.

Quite right! As a lone female I would rather not disclose that information thank you very much! I have been through National Rail website which states both my arrival and departure stations are not a penalty fares area. I was stopped well away from the ticket desk, platforms and the usual ticket gates, around 150 metres away in fact. I was in the public area of the station, just before the exit/entrance.

You are on railway property, whether it is beyond the ticket barriers or not has no relevance. To be honest, I hope you do get fined, you were quite clearly fare evading, whether through forgetfulness or stupitidity makes no difference. If it was forgetfulness then hopefully you won't forget again.

KingCheeseZombie

robt wrote: »

Because as I have said many times, it makes a difference. Why don't you go back to dithering :rolleyes:. Maybe you could tell me how I could possibly stalk someone who I don't actually know. No.... thought not. it is people like you who make people not want to bother helping people. It has been stated multiple times that the location makes a difference.

You are on railway property, whether it is beyond the ticket barriers or not has no relevance. To be honest, I hope you do get fined, you were quite clearly fare evading, whether through forgetfulness or stupitidity makes no difference. If it was forgetfulness then hopefully you won't forget again.

Agreed - the station you travel from and to does make a difference as they all have different rules depending on the train operators responsible for them. But perhaps it would be enough to ask the person in question to check themselves in case they are worried about sharing information that they deem to be of a personal nature.



Unfortunately, until someone who has responsibility for these rules clears up the situation all of this is just pure speculation. But I know for a fact that I have heard of at least three different interpretations of these rules from train staff at the same station (Birmingham New Street) if anyone is interested - it makes me worry that if the staff don't operate consistently how are passengers supposed to know where they stand?

robt_2

KingCheeseZombie wrote: »

Unfortunately, until someone who has responsibility for these rules clears up the situation all of this is just pure speculation. But I know for a fact that I have heard of at least three different interpretations of these rules from train staff at the same station (Birmingham New Street) if anyone is interested - it makes me worry that if the staff don't operate consistently how are passengers supposed to know where they stand?

It isn't speculation, it is fact. It is interpretation of it which matters . At my local terminus station (which is not in a penalty fares area and serves five or six train companies) some of the platforms have a manned barrier. You can purchase a ticket there when you get off. Due to only having two actual people in the 'booths' queues form and people end up walking past with or without tickets. Staff are quite happy to stop people anywhere on the concourse who have done this. They are also happy to get one of the police officers at the station to stop people outside of the station and bring them back.

KingCheeseZombie

robt wrote: »

It isn't speculation, it is fact. It is interpretation of it which matters . At my local terminus station (which is not in a penalty fares area and serves five or six train companies) some of the platforms have a manned barrier. You can purchase a ticket there when you get off. Due to only having two actual people in the 'booths' queues form and people end up walking past with or without tickets. Staff are quite happy to stop people anywhere on the concourse who have done this. They are also happy to get one of the police officers at the station to stop people outside of the station and bring them back.

From a consumer point of view I would be more happy for all train operators to spend the money employing staff to man stations where they want to collect money - catching one person out and issuing them with a £20 penalty fare is the same as collecting the money off 10 people for a short journey but requires a fraction of the manpower and money. It may be cynical but cost cutting measures that are not passed onto customers in fare savings shouldn't involve creating more (and more) work for passengers. (And yes I realise the argument for a price hike if there were more staff at stations.)

I don't rate the platform-side ticket purchasing facilities at most large stations that are dealing with 1000's of commuters a day who may travel in from stations where they have been unable to buy tickets. If I had the choice of joining a long queue and missing an important meeting or passing through an un-manned ticket barrier I know which one I would be forced to choose - fine or no fine.