A Question Of Survival

vivatifosi

Dithering_Dad wrote: »

We just need to generate electricity from nuclear, wind, tidal, hydro and other renewable sources and we would have solved the fuel crisis.

Except that unfortunately we apparently have UFO's attacking our wind turbines at the moment...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lincolnshire/7817378.stm

Dithering_Dad

kwikbreaks wrote: »

Since fuel cells produce electricity then if there is a "local source of electricity" the fuel cell is rather redundant.

Fuel cells are mooted as a possible replacement for gasoline for vehicles not for domestic heating.

lol, so speaks the expert. Except that fuel cells are mooted for domestic heating despite you saying different.

I suggest you google "Hydrogen Fuel Cell Domestic Heating", then write to all of the experts who are researching this and tell them all to stop researching because the fuel cell is redundant and that they're only to be used for vehicles and not for domestic heating.

Good luck with that. :rolleyes:

kwikbreaks

vivatifosi wrote: »

Except that unfortunately we apparently have UFO's attacking our wind turbines at the moment...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lincolnshire/7817378.stm

Yep. Here's the video of one the LGM hit a while back - http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=WaVyIYotTdI . If you squint and look out of the corner of your eye you might just spot the UFO responible in the clouds (otoh you might not).

kwikbreaks

Dithering_Dad wrote: »

lol, so speaks the expert. Except that fuel cells are mooted for domestic heating despite you saying different.

I suggest you google "Hydrogen Fuel Cell Domestic Heating", then write to all of the experts who are researching this and tell them all to stop researching because the fuel cell is redundant and that they're only to be used for vehicles and not for domestic heating.

Good luck with that. :rolleyes:

I suggest you look for one where the water is initially split by electricity. If you have the electricity you don't need the fuel cell. If you can produce vast amounts of electricity from one then certainly that could be used for heating but it's one hell of a waste of electricty to do that.

Dithering_Dad

kwikbreaks wrote: »

I suggest you look for one where the water is initially split by electricity. If you have the electricity you don't need the fuel cell. If you can produce vast amounts of electricity from one then certainly that could be used for heating but it's one hell of a waste of electricty to do that.

Why are you telling me this, I'm a SAP Payroll consultant, not a HFC scientist. I suggest you do as I suggested and google "Hydrogen Fuel Cell Domestic Heating" and email all the experts who are doing the research there and tell them they're wasting their time.

Won't they look foolish when they receive your emails. Silly billies.

kwikbreaks

I don't need to email anybody because there will be nobody stupid enough to think they can get more electricity out of a fuel cell than they'd use splitting the water to fuel it.

Anybody designing fuel cells will be familiar with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_law_of_thermodynamics and its applicability to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion_machine Unlike, or so it seems, you.

WTF?_2

kwikbreaks wrote: »

I don't need to email anybody because there will be nobody stupid enough to think they can get more electricity out of a fuel cell than they'd use splitting the water to fuel it.

The idea is that the fuel cell/hydrogen acts as a delivery mechanism for the energy needed to power an electric motor, not that it is some sort of amazing new power source in and of itself.

You can produce the hydrogen sustainably (or via another source like nuclear fission) in a generation plant somewhere then ship it out to refuelling stations or packed in fuel cells and have electric cars which can run off of that power. Supposedly that should be more efficient than using the electrical grid and battery technology to achieve the same end result - electric cars.

One way or another, the future is electric for vehicles. If controllable nuclear fusion is ever mastered in a form able to generate electricity, we will have hit the jackpot.

kwikbreaks

Which is essentially an expansion of what I already said.

I did check the references to see what the OP meant about using fuel cells for domestic heating which seemed rather strange especially as he also said a local electricity supply was needed. The one I read about was getting the hydrogen from natural gas, using the fuel cell to generate electricity, and using the waste heat for domestic heating. That makes perfect sense as it isn't reliant on a local electricity supply - it is the local electricity supply. I imagine they are all similar.

Dithering_Dad

kwikbreaks wrote: »

I don't need to email anybody because there will be nobody stupid enough to think they can get more electricity out of a fuel cell than they'd use splitting the water to fuel it.

Anybody designing fuel cells will be familiar with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_law_of_thermodynamics and its applicability to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perpetual_motion_machine Unlike, or so it seems, you.

I mentioned a program about Hydrogen Fuel Cells where they were being proposed for use in the home for Domestic Heating. I didn't invent them, nor did I propose that they be used in the home. I am just reporting what I saw on TV. As I suggested, google HFC and domestic heating and you'll see how they're being used.

I think the overriding principle that the scientist guy was trying to get across and which I mentioned is that they can be used in conjuction with locallly supplied electricity, such as photovoltaics, wind turbines, etc. The current problem with these technologies is that they generate energy but it is expensive and difficult to store, with it having to be used as it is generated and the excess sold to the national grid or to be stored in expensive batteries (which have a serious impact on the environment due to the mercury, etc used in their manufacture).

The advantage of the HFC used in the home is that the locally produced energy can be converted to hydrogen for storage and then converted back to energy via the HFC. This is also an advantage with traditionally produced energy as one could use cheap off-peak energy to create the hydrogen and then convert it back into electricity during peak times.

This is rather like those economy 7 storage heaters, but instead of the energy being stored inefficiantly within a concrete block, it is stored as hydrogen.

If you have an issue with using Hydrogen Fuel Cells in a domestic setting, then please take it up with the scientists who are actually doing the research rather than 'yours truly' who is simply reporting what I saw on a TV set.

This is my last transmission on this subject as I have no interest in playing "KING OF THE FORUM" with you or anyone else. This is Dithering Dad signing off. Beep. :rotfl:

kwikbreaks

In that case it is a great pity that you didn't post that in the first place instead of...

Dithering_Dad wrote: »

I saw a program on Hydrogen Fuel cells where the techie guy reckoned we could all replace our boilers with HFC's powered by electricity. The HFC would convert our tap water to hydrogen which would then be burned to heat water and power our central heating and domestic hot water needs.

..and then make smart arsed jokes when I questioned it instead of either clarifying or retracting.

And beep to you too.