SEPA Transfer EUR > GBP with HSBC UK: complaint?

Elo_Elo

Hi,

I recently did two SEPA transfers from a EUR account in France with the Credit Mutuel to my GBP account in the UK with the HSBC.

• The first time, the French bank transferred EUR directly and I ended up with the money minus 2.75% (final amount received compared to market exchange rate on the day of the transfer). I received a SEPA transfer notification letter from the HSBC 2 days later that highlighted the exchange rate used (yes, 2.75% lower than market rate...) but I've never seen this "hidden" charge highlighted anywhere in my Ts&Cs, or maybe I didn't look properly?

• The second time, the French bank transferred the GBP equivalent amount and I still ended up with the money minus 2.3% (GBP equivalent amount transferred by the French bank compared to final amount received). The French bank swears to me they've not taken any fees. HSBC UK told me they've not charged me either and received the payment in GBP (i.e. not responsible for the exchange rate).

After reading various threads on the forum, I still can't explain what happened with the second transfer. Anybody has any thoughts?

I'm thinking of complaining to the HSBC about the exchange rate used for the first transfer and to force them to investigate the second (I've lost almost £400 in the wash!) but I'm looking to support it with hard arguments. Anybody ever been successful with that type of complaint? Any idea what good arguments I could put forward?

Thanks a lot for your help,
E.

Elo_Elo

Just completing:
I found out that one of the rules of SEPA transfer is that the amount transferred must reach destination in full and any charges must be taken separately, if any.
Do you think it would support a hidden charge claim with the HSBC / breach of SEPA rules? Or is exchange rate not considered a charge? What is it considered as then?

Extant

Elo_Elo wrote: »

I received a SEPA transfer notification letter from the HSBC 2 days later that highlighted the exchange rate used (yes, 2.75% lower than market rate...) but I've never seen this "hidden" charge highlighted anywhere in my Ts&Cs, or maybe I didn't look properly?

You're not trading FX, though - you're making SEPA payments. If you want the best rate, there's probably a guide to getting it on this site.

Otherwise, the rate offered by HSBC is the rate offered - it's not a "hidden charge," it's simply what they, as a business, choose to pay for that day.

If it's a large amount of money, you may be able to "book" a better rate, but that usually needs to be done in advance.

So far all I can really see is you not bothering to research this enough before hand.

The second time, the French bank transferred the GBP equivalent amount and I still ended up with the money minus 2.3% (GBP equivalent amount transferred by the French bank compared to final amount received). The French bank swears to me they've not taken any fees. HSBC UK told me they've not charged me either and received the payment in GBP (i.e. not responsible for the exchange rate).After reading various threads on the forum, I still can't explain what happened with the second transfer. Anybody has any thoughts?

Did HSBC send you advice of the payment being received? If so, did it include details there?

I'm thinking of complaining to the HSBC about the exchange rate used for the first transfer and to force them to investigate the second (I've lost almost £400 in the wash!) but I'm looking to support it with hard arguments.

I'd be surprised if you got anywhere complaining about their exchange rate. You didn't have to use it.

Extant

Elo_Elo wrote: »

Just completing:
I found out that one of the rules of SEPA transfer is that the amount transferred must reach destination in full and any charges must be taken separately, if any.
Do you think it would support a hidden charge claim with the HSBC / breach of SEPA rules? Or is exchange rate not considered a charge? What is it considered as then?

Uh... it's considered as the exchange rate offered by that bank?

Elo_Elo

So far all I can really see is you not bothering to research this enough before hand.

Wow, flaming, nice manners. [strike]Joke about your username reflecting them.
[/strike]

Believe it or not, I did research SEPA transfers before doing one and was expecting a "mark-up" from HSBC but not that much. They won't provide the rate in advance as they can't predict the market. As they explain here "If there is any foreign exchange, we'll let you know about the exchange rate when the payment is received into your account". Hence my reluctance to call it fair.

I also did research my question before posting it and although I've seen people detailing few of these "mark-ups" with other banks, I wanted to see if anyone had ever challenged it.

Anyway, thank you for your [strike]completely useless[/strike] reply.

Extant

Elo_Elo wrote: »

Wow, flaming, nice manners. [strike]Joke about your username reflecting them.
[/strike]

I'm not paid to be here, and you're certainly not my customer, so why you think my employer or anything else should affect how I reply to you is beyond me.

Anyway, moving on:

Believe it or not, I did research SEPA transfers before doing one and was expecting a "mark-up" from HSBC but not that much. They won't provide the rate in advance as they can't predict the market. As they explain here "If there is any foreign exchange, we'll let you know about the exchange rate when the payment is received into your account". Hence my reluctance to call it fair.

Whether it's "fair" or not doesn't come into it: you cannot physically predict the rate on any given day, so it is sender beware that you may be adversely affected by the exchange rate.

Would you could have done, however, is researched HSBC's offered rate compared to the FX rates to see what sort of difference there was. If that wasn't to your liking, then you could have taken advantaged of the numerous different ways that exist in the free market to move your money about.

I also did research my question before posting it and although I've seen people detailing few of these "mark-ups" with other banks, I wanted to see if anyone had ever challenged it.

It's an offered rate for a service. UK high street banks conduct their business primarily in sterling; anything else is an "added bonus" and carries overheads for offering it, etc. As such, they will set a rate to reflect this.

Do you go into Tesco and complain about how much they sell their bread for?

Anyway, thank you for your [strike]completely useless[/strike] reply.

And thank you for your evidently sincere sense of entitlement which highlights the ever growing claims culture in modern day Britain and how it spreads on to everything.

Elo_Elo

I'm not going to keep the trolling, you've said enough really, but I bet people had the same reaction when first challenging bank charges.

Biggles

Elo_Elo wrote: »

I found out that one of the rules of SEPA transfer is that the amount transferred must reach destination in full and any charges must be taken separately, if any.

The SEPA rules are written around Euro banking. They take no account of conversion of currency, which is what happens if money is transferred into or out of the Eurozone. Banks can still charge anything they like for that service, irrespective of SEPA.

System

Biggles wrote: »

The SEPA rules are written around Euro banking. They take no account of conversion of currency, which is what happens if money is transferred into or out of the Eurozone. Banks can still charge anything they like for that service, irrespective of SEPA.

This agrees with what I've heard before.

The transfer needs to be Euro a/c to Euro a/c.
The non-eurozone countries can prevent the banks from charging commission, like Sweden has with the krona, but the UK government chose not to opt-in!

So, say thanks to G.Brown for your commission...

m567

I confirm.
transfering from Citibank EUR to a bank in France EUR account costs £10 since March 9. It used to be free before that.
heng leng, where did you see that info about non-euro zone countries...
regards,

System

Citibank are indeed purporting to charge £10 for outbound SEPA transfers, but that charge is illegal under EC Regulation 2560/2001. For transfers in euro, banks have to charge the same for cross-border and internal transfers. Citibank don't (currently) charge for BACS transfers within the UK in euro. Ergo, they can't charge for a SEPA transfer from the UK to France. Reclaim the £10 charge, citing the EU regulation. If necessary, sue them in the county court (small claim).

Of course, because Citi are in such dire straits, they may respond by trying to charge (say) £5 both for BACS euro transfers and SEPA transfers. This would be legal, but commercial suicide, I hope.