Car seat safety advice please

HalfPint

Hi, My little lad is 21 months old now and has outgrown his car seat ( a M&P with a 5 point harness) His fav trick is taking his arms out of the harness. He does leave the buckle alone though can undo it when he wants to...he did this a few times but we soon stopped it. However, we have never been able to stop him taking his arms out. :mad:

Okay thats the background...now he's outgrown it we are looking at getting him the next stage....one without the 5 point and just using the seatbelt. Obviouly we want him to be as safe as possible but not being quite 3 I'm a little cautious...maybe too much??

okay....3 seats I'm considering are Graco Logico LX comfort, Silver cross navigator and concord lift evo pt. I'd rather not spend more that £100. He's quite a big lad and very determined!! Today I tried the graco in the car which fits great is very comfy and he has plenty of room...down side is that the buckle is very easily accessed by his nimble hands! It sat just under the armrest against the seat. (fitter assured me that it was fine)

Now I'm hoping that because he'll be in a "big boy" seat with a "big boys" belt that this will stop him taking his arms out or undoing the buckle, in which case the graco would be great .

Does anyone have any view on the seats I've mentioned? It'd be also great if anyone who has access to "Which" could check these out and let me have a copy of their review (or if they recommend a better car seat)?

BTW I have a Toyota Enima (an import) most but not all seats fit but it doesn't have isofix points.

Sorry it's a bit long winded but Im so confuddled now after looking and not being able to find many reviews on these three seats, so any help would be much appreciated.

Many thanks.

Girlzmum

I think all children go through the phase of taking their arms out of the seatbelt, I told them it was not allowed and they weren't allowed in the car, pulled over as soon as I could and removed them from the car and went to get back in by myself. I only needed to do it a couple of times with them both and no more, I think the fright of me appearing to leave them worked! I know it sounds harsh but tbh I think it was worth it.
My youngest will be 3 next week and she's still in her Britax Eclipse.

dangers

We had a Britax super cruiser when my son was smaller. It was used by grandparents and our childminder initially, but he used it a lot when he was around 2 years old. Don't know whether they still make ones like this - does up using a seat belt and was suitable from around 15mths (9kgs?)

Nikabella

My DD is 2 this week & is still in the 'taking her arms out of the straps' phase although thankfully she does it a lot less. My friend suggested a technique whereby when you notice they have done that you act really scared by it - it didn't really work for my little monkey but did for hers.

I have to say in all honesty there is no way at 21 months or even now that I would be taking my DD out of a car seat with 5 point harness. The purpose of the 5 point harness is to spread out the force of any impact more evenly & in the least dangerous places for a little person. Adult seatbelts do not do this! The force is concentrated on two places predominently, the neck/chest & the stomach/pelvis. The former of each of those options is where the force can be misplaced by an adult seatbelt on a small child & where it can cause considerable damage.

I looked at the Which reports only this weekend as it was the first time I've ever had access. I was interested in how my DD's car seat rated & there were several car seats that used adult belts that Which actually recommended you didn't buy as they were so dangerous!

It's up to you if you want to get your child a car seat that uses an adult belt but personally I will be waiting for as long as I possibly can before swapping my daughter into one.

HTH.

A.x

blackcoffee

i think 21 months is far to young to be using a seat belt only and i realy cant see how he has outgrown a seat recommendd to 3 years old ? my daughter was 2 at christmas and does ocasionally take her arms out, but a few stern words and she puts them back. there is no way at 2 i would put her in any other seat than a 5 point harness seat.

we had a concord seat for my middle dd, it came with a 5 point harness which then adjusted to seat belt use. it was marked highly by which when we bought it.

definatly check out the which reports, i dnt have the latest to hand but used them when shopping for seats for my 3, i dont think graco comes out very highly ! you can get a one month trial subscription on line for free.


my yougest is in a britax seat.

HalfPint

Im sure he'll grow out of this phase of taking his arms out, as he did with undoing the buckle.

The reason I'm looking at the next stage is because weight wise he is too heavy for his current seat. It is only suitable up to 15kg...he is now past this plus his head comes above the top of the seat, admittedly only just but I have been advised that he is now too big for the seat he has. Believe me I want to keep him in there as long as possible but it's a toss up between how safe he is in a seat that he is a wee bit too big for and how safe he would be in the next stage up....you can see why I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place

I'm certainly not going to rush into getting another seat and If I can hold off I will....but it may be he will be safer in the next one.

Any car seat experts on here help me with this one??

anonymousie

Group 1 car seats go up to 18kg,( I assume you have thishttp://www.mamasandpapas.co.uk/range/group-1-child-weight-9-18kg/3170/) and as long as his ears are below te top of the seat when sitting he is not too tall I understand. You might find it actually takes him a while to gain the extra 3kg to be truely "too heavy" for the seat, as toddlers growth rate slows down eventually!.

You know already that 5 point harnesses are the best. An adult belt on a 21 month old is scary- the body proportions are all "wrong" - the "lap" portion of the belt will sit too high on the abdomen etc.

Yes I am aware about the old britax cruiser- we had one when DD1 was small- but she is now nearly 16 and safety measurs have fortunately moved on- I can rember her at about 2 sleeping in the seat and hanging half out of it as the belt just gently un wound to let her:eek:

I guess this is the sort of thing you need eventually http://www.britax.co.uk/index.php?option=com_britax&task=showgroup&id=8&Itemid=31

but check the which reports and britax fit finder. Kiddicare are generally good value. Dare I say this is one area to spend what is needed to get the best for your child- even on MSE you can't put a price on your childs safety.Less toys, secnd hand pram etc but the best new car seat you can possibly get.

RE taking arms out- a "simple" (:rotfl:) piece of behaviour modification is needed, and if you get it sorted now your child will always "belt up" and stay safe- every time they get out of the straps you stop, put them back and noone goes any where till they are safely strapped in. Be firm, calm and consistent and you WILL win (It'll be a trial though to start with). Best employed when the child want to go somewhere initially too!

Sorry if I come over as a bit of a car seat Nazi- I just think that the roads are full of idiots, even if you are a perfect driver, and nothing is more precious than our kids.

mandr33

Hi,

Just to add my bit, I have worked in crash testing of car seats, inc child seats. The 5 point harnesses are by far the best restraint system. Rear facing is by far better, as per the baby seats! But of course this is not an option! Stick with 5 points as long as you can......Below is not really expert advice, just comman sense that alot of people ignore........

Seats, harnesses, are all useless if you do not fit the seat correctly....especially the types that use the seat beat to hold the seat in place......NO TWISTING is allowed, whilst your at it any fraying or damage to the belt is trouble. Double check the routing of the seat belt.

The childs harness should be a good snug fit, especially with bulky clothing, NO TWISTING.

Naturally watch out for airbags they put them everywhere these days!

The "crash" forces involved at 30 Mph are really staggering...sobering thoughts.

It is more about a good fit, regular attention to detail. Don't crash.

All the best.

HalfPint

Many thanks anonymousie.....Useful information....I was told by an "expert" that it was the top of his head....If it is his ears then thats great!

I am very reluctant to put him in an adult belt at such a young age, as I too feel it's not right. I;ve been to different shops and spoke to their "experts" but been told different things.

You are absolutely right about price and in this case I, If i do get another seat, will get the best that I can afford...children are priceless. I cant use a fit finder cause my car is never on it!...they dont cater for imports lol.

I'm sure a read on here somewhere about calling trading standard or a council dept or something that will tell you of the best person/retailer in the area to go to....This is my next port of call.

Thanks again for all your help

ChasingButterflies

Hi op,

I have this car seat http://www.mothercare.com/Britax-Evolva-123-car-seat/dp/B001BJHYX0/sr=1-3/qid=1231361255/ref=sr_1_3/280-1681532-0682267?_encoding=UTF8&m=A2LBKNDJ2KZUGQ&n=44470031&mcb=core (sorry don't know how to do short links) to start with you can use the 5 point harness one your lo is big enough not to need it you can remove the 5 point harness and fasten with a seat belt. Your best bet is to take your car to a shop that has a large stock and then fit it. Once fitted correctly if you tug hard on the harness (chest pads) the seat should not move. If it does the seat is not fitted properly or not compatible with your car. Don't put too much faith in what the "experts" say (I am presuming you mean shop assitant?) they don't always know what they are talking about. For example they fitted a car seat for me... told me it was fine for my car... I gave it a tug :rolleyes: I then fitted it properly Most manufacturers will be able to tell you if a seat you have in mind is compatable with a particular car.

hth

Somnium

Its so refreshing to hear all these sensible words coming from parents, I work as a car seat fitter and am appalled by alot of parents attitudes toward child car seats, if only everyone thought like you guys. I agree whole hartedly with all the points here, good advice folks

Halfpint if you do find that your little one does get to tall for his current seat then it might be worth investing in a combination seat that does stages 1,2 and three. The Britax Evolva is a fab seat with very good side protection, but there are other options out there too. The bonus of the combination seat is that they still use the 5 point harness up till 18kg (40lb) but you can then convert them into a booster so no need to buy another seat. But the others are correct find a reputable local car seat dealer and make use of their advice (Your local council can point you in the right direction, I know the dept at ours is called Driver Training).