House prices and taxes

StevieJ

Cannon_Fodder wrote: »

And viewing it from another direction - the origin of this Forum...House Prices.

Does carolt and others think that "salaries should only ever go up", as others used to think about house prices?

I have never heard anyone say house prices only ever go up, I have heard people say that house prices always go up in the long term:D Another fairy story?

carolt

Cannon_Fodder wrote: »

That was quite a contructive post until you ruined it by being rude.

My position is based on the subject posed by the OP. Not nonsense.

I didn't realise I had to justify my entire outlook on every element of corporate remuneration, public service rewards, and general mis-use of wealth.

To clarify;

I don't like footballers being over-paid for what they do. I don't like Tony Blair being courted for speeches/books/directorships etc.

I don't like banks getting billlions, or bankers getting millions in salary, or traders getting millions in bonuses.

I would like it if Gordon Brown disappeared down a very deep hole in March when he loses the General Election, if he is brave enough to hold one, rather than get a penny in tours/books etc.


However, I do not sit on any boards of companies to prevent them paying multi-million pound salaries or bonues. Or on the technical staff of any football clubs to stop them recruiting.

I can choose which companies I do business with, withholding my custom if I deem it appropriate. I do not have that choice where councils are concerned, so have to pay my tax.

Which should not be as high as it is, largely due to this government but also due to inefficiency, waste, profligacy, and ineptitude.

Why do any of us waste our time pontificating on a multitude of subjects? It all disappears into the ether after a few hours, never to be seen again.

No-one made you read it.

Not clear why you're so offended, let alone personally.

If I read your post correctly, you object strenuously to anyone who earns large sums of money.

I don't. As long as I am comfortable, I don't mind if footballers with a special talent which others are prepared to pay for (and yes, it baffles me why they would, but if other people enjoy football and are prepared to spend cash on it, that's up to them) earn millions. I don't mind if individuals want to buy books written by former PM's and therfore justify multi-million pound book deals either.

Frankly, if the Chief Executive of a Council earns roughly equivalent to good local GP, I think we're getting him rather cheaply.

Now as to whether GP's are overpaid....that's another question again.

Ultimately, I wake up every day with a sense of marvel and wonder that I was fortunate enough to be born in a day and age where I wake up in a comfy bed, with glorious central heating (especially in this weather), that I can always afford to put food on the table, that my children are educated, that we earn our wages doing things that, if not always 'fun' are rarely physically arduous (unless we so choose) and that allow us ample sleeping time. We are so bloody fortunate. Even now, all over the world, there are people who could only dream of one day of the kind of lifestyle you enjoy.

So some people earn more. Big deal.

StevieJ

Top post Carol, It is the green eyed envy monster, it escapes from its cage every now and again

nickmason

stephen163 wrote: »

The 'stickiness' of wages is a well known phenomenon in economics. It's just a function of human nature and the modern economic system. Some would even argue it is rational. But then...just because it is, doesn't mean it should be

Which is a very compelling reason for having measured, steady inflation.
...As long as it is protected by interest rates (net of any tax:p) that mean that financial assets are not depleted over time (as such depletion disencourages saving, and hence investment).

benood

What this thread is missing is a considered list of all the crucial tasks undertaken by local councils:

1.Bins
2.Planning
3.Roads
4.Er that's it


Sorry I know there's loads of other essential stuff I've missed - anyone care to expand...

carolt

Um..education, social services (remember Haringey & Baby P?), libaries, local environment, to name just a few.

Or are they not important enough to mention?

Cleaver

benood wrote: »

What this thread is missing is a considered list of all the crucial tasks undertaken by local councils:

1.Bins
2.Planning
3.Roads
4.Er that's it


Sorry I know there's loads of other essential stuff I've missed - anyone care to expand...

They are massive, complex organisations that engage in many of the same activities that massive, complex private organations also engage in.

You could sum a bank up just as easily:

1. Lend money
2. Save money
3. Er. that's it.

In reality though, it's a bit more complex than that. Hence, the salaries for people who run banks, councils, hospitals and any other big organisations will be paid a lot. Some will do an excellent job, most will do an average job and some will do an awful job. Obviously some people don't like these people getting paid a lot (as pointed out by Carolt), but it's just a fact of life.

Cannon_Fodder

carolt wrote: »

Not clear why you're so offended, let alone personally.
......
So some people earn more. Big deal.

You said my post before was "a load of nonsense"...why would I not be personally offended?!?

I have seen you oblivious to other people taking offence at something you write, and often thought they were exaggerating. But maybe I was wrong. You don't even seem to read, let alone re-read, what you write.


A good GP is supposed to be on £104K. see http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7671701.stm

The council executives are on £200K. I don't think double is cheap. Although, maybe we would agree that they should both be trimmed down.


You are right in the sense that you are lucky, as am I, compared to many.

But as someone who wants price to fall from ridiculous levels;

carolt wrote: »

- due to ludicrously high house prices -

I don't understand why you cannot see the link with salaries...city bonuses fuelled the London boom, didn't they?


Of course some people will always earn more, it not that per se which is the problem. Its the differential, that has been growing exponentially it appears; the gap between top and bottom is getting too wide.

I hope the recession brings that gap back a bit towards sane levels, just like house prices.

nickmason

benood wrote: »

What this thread is missing is a considered list of all the crucial tasks undertaken by local councils:

1.Bins
2.Planning
3.Roads
4.Er that's it


Sorry I know there's loads of other essential stuff I've missed - anyone care to expand...

See JDC's post #355 at http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.html?t=1370265&page=18

Discussed - amongst other things - changing parking reg's in our district (something under a dozen carparks) so that people wouldn't pay on Good Friday. Some reasons for, some against.
Turns out that the cost of doing so (not the lost revenue, simply the cost of the change) - would be considerably north of £5K;

• statutory public notifications
• statutory notifications to other bodies (unbelievably we need to tell the fire authority!)
• reprogramming the software

etc, etc.

That's even without changing the signage.

I think that that little nugget will stay in my mind every time I hear a new initiative from central government - each change has a huge cost.

EDIT: sorry, JDC's post was about non-statutory, but "near-essential". For essential, yes schools and hospitals are a good start; housing, benefits, social services, public transport, libraries, council tax collection (necessary if any services are necessary - unless the government wants to remove CT completely).
Most people probably don't realise that their council tax also pays towards fire and policy authorities...

carolt

Cannon_Fodder wrote: »

And viewing it from another direction - the origin of this Forum...House Prices.

Does carolt and others think that "salaries should only ever go up", as others used to think about house prices?

There are vested interests, with "the old boys network" operating in board rooms, the Local Government Association operating across councils to ensure "parity", just as embedded and damaging to the interests of the public in respect of tax/salaries, as Estate Agents, surveyors, property developers and BTLers were in respect of house prices.

Two wrongs do not make a right. I can only address the wrong raised in this thread. I would love to see some common sense prevail over salaries generally.

If GDP falls by, say 6%, from what is would have been without a recession, I think all directors of all companies should take a 6% pay cut.

Or, if you prefer, the % drop in their own companies share price may be fairer, as some companies have been sensible, so bankers remuneration would be down by around 90%...

In a nutshell, I don't disagree with you that many jobs are overpaid, probably all jobs if you take a global average (see my comments re this in previous post). Let alone the unemployed! But I do fundamentally disagree with your - and the OP's obsession with public sector pay (yet not private sector pay). Apart from bankers - who as I argued above, are basically public sector workers now in all but name, since the bailout - the really outrageous pay packets are those of Chief Executives of listed companies NOT local govt executives. The pay disparity between the two is so vast - the millions paid in salaries and bonuses to the former compared to a fraction of that to the latter - that I can't see why you place such a stress on the latter.