'1731, 2033, 9854' blog discussion

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  • I was reluctant to give up my signature cards, but eventually gave in.

    Seeing this thread I dug out some links:

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/6444665/Chip-and-Spin
    A paper on the shift of liability with the introduction of chip an pin also covers some of the potential weaknesses of the system - some since proved correct.

    http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/10/21/phantoms_and_rogues/print.html
    This is the story of how the UK banking system could have collapsed in the early 1990s, but for the forbearance of a junior barrister who also happened to be an expert in computer law - and who discovered that at that time the computing department of one of the banks issuing ATM cards had "gone rogue", cracking PINs and taking money from customers' accounts with abandon.
    A little dated, but they still make interesting reading.

    We need to move away from trivially short PIN numbers. Many banks in Canada now use 6 digits. Moving to personaly selected sets of images is an interesting approach and could be viable on touch screen ATMs. Its already being used for internet banking. Images are easier to remember, and impossible to type.
  • I'm a mobility scooter user and really worry about using my debet card when theres lots of people about. I now get cash back at the supermarket as its easyer to hide my pin number. Tis is because the check out girl passes the machine down to me to use, I then hold it with one hand covering the numbers and the other to pin my number in.
  • PROLIANTPROLIANT Forumite
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    Yes, very interesting indeed; well, I hide my pin in a deliberate annoying manor, I purposely look around the point of sale and if anybody is too close I pause - deliberately, to further cause delay I slowly type my pin in to the machine while deliberately covering my every key push, I love it cos you can hear the obnoxious [EMAIL="tw@ts"][email protected][/EMAIL] huffing and puffing in the back ground.
    I demand my space and privacy, if you stand too close I will tell you and make you aware of the fact you are being a tw#t and I will deliberately cause a scene - because I am like that and because I can, supermarkets or any retailer for that matter should not be so scared to instruct fellow customers to "back off" and respect other peoples privacy, they do it in banks at the counter, you don’t have people snooping over your shoulder and being so god damn freekin nosey!

    MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS!
    Since when has the world of computer software design been about what people want? This is a simple question of evolution. The day is quickly coming when every knee will bow down to a silicon fist, and you will all beg your binary gods for mercy.
  • edited 24 April 2009 at 5:24PM
    JamesJames Forumite
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    edited 24 April 2009 at 5:24PM
    " One more common form of card crime is watching the pin number then mugging someone for the card once they know the number."

    Martin from a personal safety perspective I'd have thought you'd have mentioned cardholders opting for Chip & Signature Cards, vice Chip & PIN.

    If you've not got a PIN, you're going to reduce the risk of being mugged.

    A PIN and Card, cloned or genuine = A crook having instant access to Hard Cash at ATM's

    If you are a victim of PIN based fraud, as quite a few contributors to this site can verify - you can and end up paying the cost of that fraud.

    I'd recommend Chip & Signature Credit Cards for the above reasons.

    Shocking story in the Media today

    This criminal went shopping with his victims cards at Christmas in Edinburgh. The criminal a male, used the victim, a females cards.

    With Chip & PIN, retailers have been taken out the equation for preventing card fraud. As long as a transaction is verified by a PIN, they're guaranteed their money. What an incentive to check if the person presenting the card is the genuine card holder.

    Story Click here.
  • boopydooboopydoo Forumite
    184 Posts
    James- a similar thing happened to me. I went shopping to get my MIL a birthday present and card and my OH gave me his chip and pin card. It was just after the changeover and some local shops were still relying on signatures. Clinton Cards were one such shop and when she swiped the card and asked me to sign I told her I had my boyfriends card so couldn't sign- we have different surnames so I could have been anyone. She said it was ok just sign it. Clearly signature cards wouldn't make a difference if you are going to get idiots like this.

    The main problem with chip and pin is that you don't see the identity of the person who owns the card. Most shops don't even have to take the card off you so don't see the name across the middle making fraud even easier. My mum uses my dad's card all the time. One day she went on a spree (with his permission) and bought two new beds for nearly £2,000, new bedding for a few hundred and went to book a holiday. Thankfully the CC company saw all this activity and put a note on the card that it couldn't be cleared until they confirmed my dad's identity on the phone.

    Also I have heard of a very simple method for removing the signature from the back of a card so it would be simple to change this
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