BT Call Out Charge - Going through Third Party ISP

321go

Hello, I wonder if somebody might be able to help. I've found some helpful posts elsewhere but they all relate to dealing directly with BT - this is going via a third party (my ISP)

When I first moved into my new house the ADSL connection was awful, with next-to-no connectivity (128k and frequent drop-outs). After various calls to my ISP they got BT to do a flex to reset the equipment to my line, which improved but did not resolve everything.

After the flex the available speed improved but the drop-outs continued, sometimes for hours at a time.

On the ISP support advice, I removed all extensions and replaced all equipment all the way up to the master socket. Cables, routers, everything.

Finally, the ISP support people conceded that there was nothing else they could do but call out an engineer.

Typically... on the day the engineer arrived the connection was working absolutely fine. They tested the line and found the speed and quality was good.

They then replaced the master socket anyway, saying that the 'new master socket improves the bell line'.

Ever since the internet connection has been great. No more drop-outs, and it's nice and fast. A while later I got a bill from my ISP for 'BT Engineer callout charge' - £147 + VAT.

After talking to the ISP (who've been supportive of my claim to date) they agreed to raise a complaint against BT, on the basis that I did everything possible within my power to rule out customer fault, and that BT's actions demonstrated that their equipment (master socket) must have been the cause as replacing it resolved the issue.

BT's complaints department came back with a rather blunt response, that they would not retract the charge as "replacing the plate acted to reduce interference on the line" and will no longer consider retracting the charge.

My ISP - with their policy of passing on BT charges directly to the customer - have now asked me to settle the invoice.

My view is that not only did I do everything possible as a customer to 'clear my name' - i.e. replace every item of equipment and connect directly to the master socket with extensions detached - but simply put that BT replaced their own piece of equipment and the fault disappeared - so surely by deduction their own equipment was at fault?

The particular predicament that I am in is that I have no direct relationship with BT, as my contract is with my ISP, so the advice elsewhere on the forums to contact various parts of BT would seem not to apply - what might be the best thing for me to do next to get this charge dropped?

Many thanks in advance!

DatabaseError

name the ISP..though I can guess as not many pass on the charge.
From my little understanding, openreach should only invoke a charge if there is no fault found (possibly), or the fault is found to be customers equipment (ie beyond the master socket). If BTO changed the master, then work was done to BT equipment in your home, there should be no charge, keep up the fight.

321go

The ISP is Newnet. BT appear to have used both the "no fault found" and the "fault found on customer's equipment" line in responses (Newnet complained on my behalf twice). As far as I can tell (via Newnet), BT's argument was that the new master socket had better protection against poor quality customer equipment. The equipment, by the way, was from Netgear and Belkin, and worked perfectly well at at least two previous addresses (with much older master sockets) ... and the house I'm in now was built approx. 2002.

I'm reluctant to point the guns at Newnet as they've been quite helpful to date, but as my supplier I suppose the dispute is technically (and from my point of view, wholly) with them?

DatabaseError

you have no contact with BT Openreach, so you can only go via newnet (not the one I expected ). I've never heard the excuse of a new master (replacing one under 7 years old as well) to protect the BT systems from poor quality gear.
Even so, netgear I do like, belkin I'd happily bin. but gear does break. but...you're using the same equipement on the same line..carry on the fight to newnet

ashleypride

321go wrote: »

The ISP is Newnet. BT appear to have used both the "no fault found" and the "fault found on customer's equipment" line in responses (Newnet complained on my behalf twice). As far as I can tell (via Newnet), BT's argument was that the new master socket had better protection against poor quality customer equipment. The equipment, by the way, was from Netgear and Belkin, and worked perfectly well at at least two previous addresses (with much older master sockets) ... and the house I'm in now was built approx. 2002.

I'm reluctant to point the guns at Newnet as they've been quite helpful to date, but as my supplier I suppose the dispute is technically (and from my point of view, wholly) with them?

I am afraid from your description, it does appear that the interference was coming from your own internal wiring (the wiring to your phone extensions NOT your NetGear equipment). BT have replaced the master socket with a new type that isolates the bell wire (i.e. a BT IPlate), this has stopped your bell wire leaking rubbish onto the standard data lines. (Bell wires only exist after the master socket).

ashleypride

PS. I don't suppose you happened to test the connection prior to BT coming by undoing the master socket faceplate and using the test socket? If the problem still occurred with the face plate off the problem wasn't the internal wiring.

DatabaseError

I would (and did) assume that the ISP would have insisted on such tests before calling BTO

321go

I did. One of the instructions given by the Newnet support team was to remove the very front panel from the BT Master socket, and connect the router directly to the socket inside, thus ensuring that all extensions to the rest of the house were removed. Tried that on several occasions over a number of days, and the problem was still very much evident with all extensions removed.

monkeyman2007

Hello,

I'm just wondering, were these dropout happening at peak times? I have had a similiar problem for about a year now with my line, and have been informed that the next step is to call out a bt engineer (and be charged as well) so haven't taken that step yet, i'd rather just cancel my bt line and get an all inclusive package.

I get the asdl completely losing sync about every 30 seconds occasioanlly at peak times, sorry I can't help with question regarding call out charge though, but you've help me make my mind up

321go

They were happening at all hours of the day with no particular bias. If my experience is anything to go by make notes of absolutely everything and do lots of testing before you get the engineer in. I certainly wouldn't have had as strong a case as (I think) I do if the evidence and testing were weak.

Best of luck