Elder care for middle-classes to be abolished!

harryhound

Beware of statistics:
In the early 1900's life expectancy for men was 45 and for women was 49 -
I don't know what counted as the starting point for calculating these averages:
5 months, five years, 15 years, 25 years???.
Getting back to current statistics and speaking from personal experience, people have always been able to live until their 60's if not carried off early by accidents or diseases or childbirth, given a reasonable level of nutrition.
Then things start to "wear out"; what really happens is that the tails of the bits of DNA are getting so ragged that they no longer reproduce themselves correctly.
So our bodies start to fall to pieces and we have symptoms of old age setting in, including impaired immune systems.
Medical science can continue patching us up for another 10 to 15 years.

Rosie75

I have always thought I would rather be dead than be in a home suffering from dementia. Losing my mental faculties is the thing that terrifies me the most. However, having observed my in-laws for the last couple of years, they are happier than they have ever been in their lives, existing in their own worlds where the most mundane objects are a source of fascination. I'm not sure I'd agree that they don't have quality of life, after all they seem blissfully happy and think they are on holiday in a hotel with particularly nice staff. All the problems they had before moving to the home have gone, since they are now properly medicated and staff know how to deal with their behaviour. I do think it's the families of dementia suffers who suffer the most.

Generali

Rosie75 wrote: »

I'm not sure I'd agree that they don't have quality of life, after all they seem blissfully happy and think they are on holiday in a hotel with particularly nice staff. It's the families of dementia suffers who really struggle.

My father died of Alzheimers and that is spot on

harryhound

Generali wrote: »

My father died of Alzheimers and that is spot on

One in 6 of the over 80's grim but true?

dzug1

beingjdc wrote: »

They don't get any state subsidy towards their nursing home care, is what it ought to say up there.

They do - something a little over £100 a week if they require nursing home care. Not means tested. Paid direct to the home and reduces the fees.

dzug1

baileysbattlebus wrote: »

I think I read somewhere that the average length of time in residential care was about 2 years.

Could be so.

Another 'statistic' in which there is some truth is that if they make it through the first 6 weeks they will normally survive quite a while

Austin_Allegro

A problem with care homes is that I think people look at them through healthy eyes, if that makes sense. Obviously elderly people must never be abused, neglected etc, but we tend to see rows of old folk in chairs and think 'how awful'; forgetting that those people generally aren't aware of their condition or that this is for them the only option because all others have been exhausted.

Very few people get put in care homes unless it is absolutely necessary. Anyone who's had to look after someone with dementia will know that eventually, it is a mercy for the person to be put in care because otherwise the carers themselves will go round the bend. So I don't think anyone should have to feel guilty about putting loved ones into care.

milliemonster

Austin_Allegro wrote: »

A problem with care homes is that I think people look at them through healthy eyes, if that makes sense. Obviously elderly people must never be abused, neglected etc, but we tend to see rows of old folk in chairs and think 'how awful'; forgetting that those people generally aren't aware of their condition or that this is for them the only option because all others have been exhausted.

Very few people get put in care homes unless it is absolutely necessary. Anyone who's had to look after someone with dementia will know that eventually, it is a mercy for the person to be put in care because otherwise the carers themselves will go round the bend. So I don't think anyone should have to feel guilty about putting loved ones into care.

This is so true, how many 'healthy' elderly that still live at home spend all day sat in front of the TV anyway?

My grandfather died of Alzheimers and I have to disagree with a couple of the earlier posters in that he had a horrendous end to his life in the fact he spent the last year not knowing anyone, where he was or anything, he certainly didn't think he was in a holiday camp, and would be quite often abusing the staff who were looking after him as he thought they were trying to harm him.

We have to make some serious provision for the elderly over the next 40 -50 years, whilst medical advancement can improve life expectancy somewhat, nothing so far has been able to improve age related degeneration, the government is now expecting many of us to be working well into our seventies before we can draw our pensions, but many people in their seventies are simply too 'old' to continue to work. Most of my family died of age related illness in their seventies (eldest to live was 79), not much hope for me

Austin_Allegro

milliemonster wrote: »

This is so true, how many 'healthy' elderly that still live at home spend all day sat in front of the TV anyway?

My grandfather died of Alzheimers and I have to disagree with a couple of the earlier posters in that he had a horrendous end to his life in the fact he spent the last year not knowing anyone, where he was or anything, he certainly didn't think he was in a holiday camp, and would be quite often abusing the staff who were looking after him as he thought they were trying to harm him.

We have to make some serious provision for the elderly over the next 40 -50 years, whilst medical advancement can improve life expectancy somewhat, nothing so far has been able to improve age related degeneration, the government is now expecting many of us to be working well into our seventies before we can draw our pensions, but many people in their seventies are simply too 'old' to continue to work. Most of my family died of age related illness in their seventies (eldest to live was 79), not much hope for me

I agree. We simply aren't going to have sufficient resources in the West to adequately look after our ageing population.

Unless a cure for dementia is found (it's possible, as drugs such as Aricept can already slow the progression) I believe we will have a form of euthanasia by stealth over the next few years; elderly people will be encouraged to commit to 'living wills' whereby they will not be given treatment (except palliative care) for things like pneumonia and other diseases which, in the days before antibiotics, were considered a merciful end for the elderly.

If you think this isn't possible, just look at the government proposals to introduce compulsory-with-opt-out organ donation.

Whilst in principle I don't have a problem with this as long as it is certain the person in question has agreed to it, I agree it is open to a lot of abuse but I don't think we can continue to avoid this question.

neverdespairgirl

Austin_Allegro wrote: »

I believe we will have a form of euthanasia by stealth over the next few years; elderly people will be encouraged to commit to 'living wills' whereby they will not be given treatment (except palliative care) for things like pneumonia and other diseases which, in the days before antibiotics, were considered a merciful end for the elderly.

That's happened for years anyway.