Elder care for middle-classes to be abolished!

Generali

Broken_hearted wrote: »

Funny I thought we already paid.

Nope. No fund is set aside from current taxation to cover the liabilities that are being accrued by workers to pay for their future care in the same way as the pensions are unfunded.

The country will not have enough money to pay the promises and implied promises that have been made.

You cannot rely on the following things as a person currently working in the UK as they are unfunded or underfunded:

Future NHS care
State pension
Civil Service pension
Private defined benefits pensions
Care homes/personal nursing

The total shortfall is around GBP1,000,000,000,000 and rising daily. There is pretty much no chance that these promises will be kept.

baileysbattlebus

MRSTITTLEMOUSE wrote: »

Anyone else just want to take as much as possible out of their pensions and blow the lot.I can tell you we're beginning to feel that way.
My husband retires in 8 years,we won't be eligible for anything as we have saved and he has a final salary pension that he has been paying into for nearly forty years.Our house will also be paid for too.He's always worked,we have never had anything but family allowance for two of our three daughters(you did'nt get it for the first then)he hasn't even had sickness benefit as in all those years he's had about 14 days sickness.All of my girls work and pay for their own families.
In contrast my brother-in-law,just a few years younger has never worked.He is an alcoholic(he's always refused treatment for this) and has lived on the social since he was 19.He has three children who he has never earned a penny for and he and his wife want for nothing.When he's classed as retired he and my sister-in-law will be catered for and won't be expected to pay for anything.His eldest son is following in his fathers footsteps and living on the dole with his wife and children.
It makes you wonder why you bother getting up in the morning to do the decent thing,does'nt it.

We're in a similar postition but closer to retirement by a few years. We also have never had any benefit other than child benefit - but we got it for all of ours I'm sure, the eldest is 30 this year.

OH and I both have final salary pensions - I took mine at 50 (just in case it disappeared), we were thinking about early retirement for OH this year - when he is 55, but have put it on hold for a while. I also still work - although I only do contract or temporary work, as I might want some extended time off - I had this summer off. Oh, and we also have a house nearly paid for - it used to be worth quite a bit of money - I don't know what it's worth now - probably 20p or something.

My MIL spent the last 10 years of her life in a home - she never owned a house, she was a private renter most of her life, then got a council bungalow when she was about 80, which had a warden, then at 88 she went into a home and she died when she 98 (their longest resident).

The council had a limit on how much they would spend per week, she was fully funded up to that limit. Her residential home cost more than the council limit and she also wanted a room of her own, (if you knew MIL you'd have wanted her to have a room of her own too!) the council would only pay for shared accommodation. We paid the difference - which was about £60 per week - at the time it was a bit of struggle as the kids, we have 3, were young teenagers and quite expensive. But she was OH's mother and you do what you can. Now if she had had a property of her own, it would have saved us a fair bit of hardship, not that the money was begrudged - it wasn't.

But you get up in the morning and do the decent thing because you have a sense of right and wrong and because you have children and want them to end up with a good work ethic, willing and able to look after their own families, and with any luck your daughters' children will grow up to be the same. As well as provide for your old age ofcourse!!!!!!!

PasturesNew

I have no pension and will probably live to an old age as my grandparents all did (and my parents seem to be following suit).

I also have no kids.

I expect I'll end up ga-ga and being beaten by some big fat matron-type in a nasty home when I'm old. I hope not

You lot will come and visit me won't you ...?

MRSTITTLEMOUSE

Please don't take this the wrong way any of you but I think it's a sad sign of the times realy that we're even having to discuss this.
I must admit no one has ever been put in a nursing home in our family.We all feel we have a duty of care to look after each other.Just as you look after your young,the older generation needs looking after too.
I just think it's very sad the way society is today when tiny babies and children are put into nursery and old people need nursing care when years ago it was a family responsibility to do the caring.I do realise some families are'nt that close but perhaps our life style these days makes it that way.

beingjdc

MRSTITTLEMOUSE wrote: »

I just think it's very sad the way society is today when tiny babies and children are put into nursery and old people need nursing care when years ago it was a family responsibility to do the caring.

I appreciate some people see residential care as an easy option, but years ago, families had housewives, and most people would need looking after for a few months towards the end.

My great uncle, as discussed above, can't see or walk any distance unaided, so he needs someone to someone to get him up, wash, shave and dress him, someone to feed him, someone to take him to the toilet, and someone to put him to bed. That's before finding something to keep him entertained, and someone on-hand 24/7 for emergencies. He's been that way for probably two years now, not getting any worse, just never going to get any better.

Who should be doing this full-time care over several years, me with a full-time job and no spare room, my father with a full-time job, or my mother, in her early sixties herself?

Honestly, of my two living grandparents one is clear that if she's the last remaining, she's off into a residential home asap, rather than stuck alone in a big house with no help.

SingleSue

PasturesNew wrote: »

I have no pension and will probably live to an old age as my grandparents all did (and my parents seem to be following suit).

I also have no kids.

I expect I'll end up ga-ga and being beaten by some big fat matron-type in a nasty home when I'm old. I hope not

You lot will come and visit me won't you ...?

I'll come and visit but I would expect my beating rights at the same time

Caring for a relative is a rather awkward scenario, you have a society which insists on earning as much as you can and the expectation you will but on the other hand, you will have the guilt of not doing the looking after.

I am in this quandry at present...I want to work as society expects me to work (plus I rather like doing it) but I am also expected to do the caring for my disabled children, be able to drop everything at the drop of a hat to do that caring and I love my children so feel guilt about even wanting to work.

So, in my case, it's the finding of the happy middle ground and making it work....

wymondham

This is a subject I feel passionately about.

The need for care homes is as a result of the downfall of the family and working geography. Many years ago you had family around you who would be expected to care for those not able to (and they assumed the role as well). Nowadays, people are spaced out (geographically, not drug induced!) and live in unsuitable accomodation that is probably only just big enough for themselves, let alone an aging relative. Most in the household work, so there is nobody available to look after them - another change from years ago.

There are also people now who assume this is what you do with the elderly, but I think this is more to do with them not experiencing the alteratives.

There is nothing to fill this gap other than expensive, inadequate care. It's so sad. I saw what happended to my Grandad after he went into care and it tore me apart - I could see him give up within weeks. I strongly believe if he lived with us, amoungst people he knew and loved (especially the younger generation) he would have stayed younger longer and lived out his days to the best possible.

Surely anything that encourages people to go back to these times when it comes to care would benefit all of us?

Bring back Granny annexes, that what I say!

SingleSue

My mum cared for her mother in her last weeks until my nan refused to have help from her...my parents saw it as their duty to look after her but my nan had always said she didn't want her children to have to do that.

She would shout at my mum " I didn't want you doing this" " I don't want my children seeing me like this" and other similar things, it was really upsetting her and it was an awful strain on my mum.

We finally got her a place in our local cottage hospital as her medical needs were too much for a care home, she died peacefully within the week.

treliac

MRSTITTLEMOUSE wrote: »

Please don't take this the wrong way any of you but I think it's a sad sign of the times realy that we're even having to discuss this.
I must admit no one has ever been put in a nursing home in our family.We all feel we have a duty of care to look after each other.Just as you look after your young,the older generation needs looking after too.
I just think it's very sad the way society is today when tiny babies and children are put into nursery and old people need nursing care when years ago it was a family responsibility to do the caring.I do realise some families are'nt that close but perhaps our life style these days makes it that way.

Yes, our need to earn to maximum capacity and maybe move to other parts to secure work do not enhance our ability to care for our own.

My DD says she will never live far from me (even though she's now at uni at the other end of the country!). But she knows I will expect her to take whatever opportunities life offers her, wherever those might be. I certainly didn't give birth with the expectation that my children would someday be taking responsibility for me. (Though, of course, if would be lovely to be not too far away).

Mrs_Ryan

Very emotive thread...

I work on a specialist ward in a community hospital looking after older people with dementia.

A lot of the patients we take we take because their families can no longer cope with their behaviour at home. We see husbands and wives who havent been apart in 40, 50, 60-odd years but their partners, who are older themselves, simply can no longer cope no matter how much help they have. And that is why a lot of older people go into homes - not because their relatives dont care, its because they cannot cope and their loved ones need specialist care.
My own nan was in a home for the end of her life, because my uncle, who did everything to make the end of her life comfortable, had acute kidney failure and could no longer cope with her after a series of strokes left her with a range of problems.
Having done a placement in a nursing home when I was doing my nurse training, I was quite frankly gobsmacked at what goes on there, and the owners were only interested in making the maximum amount of money possible.
Also, obviously working in the field i do, the subject of continuing care and funding comes up a lot. I think its wrong that a person can work and pay NI all their lives, but can be penalised for having savings etc when they need more help towards the end of their lives. There should be more help available, definitely.