Insurance renewal question

olly300

julliff wrote: »

Just checking, but I definitely read it somewhere here.



The article is here:

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/insurance/home-insurance

I'm really confused now, as the impcation on this thread seems to be that it is ethically wrong to use the cashback site to renew as a new customer.

Many people on this site do it.

Your ethics are your own business.

Things to remember:
1. Businesses don't have ethics.
2. Businesses are out their to make money,

jonnyb

I'm really confused now, as the impcation on this thread seems to be that it is ethically wrong to use the cashback site to renew as a new customer.

I have only seen that implication from the indicisive woman. If the insurance companies had a problem with it, they would not offer the cashback incentives.

And I agree with your other sentiment about them relying on the inertia of existing customer just renewing without shopping around.

shelly

julliff wrote: »

I'm really confused now, as the impcation on this thread seems to be that it is ethically wrong to use the cashback site to renew as a new customer.

I read it that Lady thinks its wrong to renew as a new customer when you aren't. Not that you shouldn't use a cashback site.

Personally I find the cheapest quote and take that to my ins cos and ask them to better it. If they can't they lose the business.
For us its rare that any of our existing insurers can better a cheaper quote so we rarely stay with any ins co for 2 years running. The only exception to this is our buildings and contents insurers. They have consistantly bettered cheaper quotes than their renewal price.

PurpleK8

I have just taken out car insurance through quidco and found quotes became higher through them (often to the sum of the cashback!!!), and lloyds probably will withold payment as it may not track so not worth the risk?
I had home insurance with lloyds for a few years and always found that they were able to give me a lower quote when I phoned them to refuse the renewal on the grounds that the price was too high. well worth speaking to them first when you've armed yourself with comparitive quotes.

LadyIndecisive

It is sometimes ok to disagree with Martin’s opinions but I’m not an overly moralistic person. Personally I think there are limits to bending the truth and abusing loopholes. I work in insurance; if I did what the OP suggests I would probably lose my job. But that’s just me. There are other parts of advice on the site which my manager - with many more years insurance experience than me - has taken issue with.

There are two issues at play: simply applying as a new customer will get you a cheaper quote because there will likely be a small discount applied. Applying as a new customer via a cash-back site to gain a large £90 ‘golden hello’ is a separate issue.

The quote from Martin doesn’t really cover both scenarios together.

Obviously the cash-back is there to bring new customers to the business. So the answer to the question ‘is it allowed?’ is ‘no’. ‘Will the new policy be accepted and the cash-back paid?’- possibly. Should insurers check for the existence of an old policy before allowing cash-back on a new policy? – yes.

You can’t ‘renew as a new customer’ because one cannot both ‘renew’ and be a ‘new customer’. If you obtain a new policy your records will not run concurrently. You will have a different policy number and a new set of records. This may be more of a nuisance than anything else but elements of your personal data will probably differ from one policy to the next. Having worked for a large direct insurer it’s not unusual for notes intended for one policy to be put on the wrong policy, even for claims to be entered on the wrong policy.

What the OP does is their decision but it is my view that there’s an element of deception to doing it.

lisyloo

Why would I be defrauding the insurer, by going throught the cashback site? I will be using all my true credentials.

I think the point is that if you say you are a NEW customer when youa re not in order to obtain a discount then that could be fradulent.

In your particular case I don't know whether you have to claim to be a new customer or whether the insurer is making an assumption, so the level of "deception" is not obvious.
Taking it to extremes, If there was a box to tick saying "Tick for new cutsomer £50 discount" and you weren't a new customer, then ticking it would be fraud.
If the insurer is assuming you are a new customer just because you apply for a new quote and they are making an assumption, then I would say that isn't fraud.

So the question is, are you mis-representing yourself, or is there system doing assuming something. In the latter case you are not guilty IMO, but I am not a Lawyer.

finbow

At what point does it say anything about being a new customer?? It just states about getting a new quote. It really annoys me when insurance companies offer new customers lower prices than an existing customer who has never claimed (even prior to cashback), so I almost always get a new quote instead of renewing.

lisyloo

At what point does it say anything about being a new customer?

If it doesn't say anything then you are in the clear IMO.

Some companies do make it clear that offers are for new customers only, so if you deliberately (for exmaple) changed your email address then that would be deception, but if there is nothing stated at all then I can't see how you can be guilty of anything.

pborojon

Surely insurance is a 12 month contract therefore at the end of the contract the insurer has no obligation to you and vice versa. If an Insurer chooses to not worry about renewal retention as opposed to attracting new business then I think you're entitled to take out a new 12 month contract with them including any discount they might offer. Does the insurer stipulate you must not have had a policy with them in the past 12 months? No of course they don't and unless insurers tighten up their wording there isn't anything they can do about it and it certainly isn't immoral.

lisyloo

Surely insurance is a 12 month contract therefore at the end of the contract the insurer has no obligation to you and vice versa.

Most contracts these days are on an auto-renew basis.
So whilst you are right, you often need to let them know if you want to cancel.

A company has the right to decide who they deem to be a NEW customer and what discounts they can give.
They can call their discounts what they like and allocate them as they wish.

For example some credit card companies consider you a new customer after 12 months. They can set the criteria as they wish pretty much (providing it's within the law)

then I think you're entitled to take out a new 12 month contract with them including any discount they might offer.

You are not allowed to commit fraud.
So you cannot "mis-represent" the risks.
So you cannot pretend to be a woman to get a discount when you are in fact a man.
Similary you can't blatantly pretend to be a new customer if you aren't (if that quesion if asked or it's clearly stated for NEW customers only).

unless insurers tighten up their wording there isn't anything they can do about it and it certainly isn't immoral.

I think I agree with you that it has to be something you actively declare or is quite obvious i.e. not in small print on page 298.