Updated 15 Feb: Trapped with dodgy contract with non existant company! -

Derbyshire_Phoenix

Update: After emailing the addresses provided below, I got a phone call a couple of days later from the elusive customer services department and am now the very happy owner of an SPV 550 on the same old low tariff on a one year contract with Orange themselves. It will probably take the best part of a year to learn how to use all the functions but who cares

Thanks to all who contributed to this thread, you were a huge source of inspiration and advice.

I just find it remarkable how painless it all was once I got talking to someone who was actually in a position to do something.

DP aka Sarah


The original story...

This is beyond ridiculous but I promise you that sadly it is all true, so any advice or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

I have been on contract with Orange forever; well at least 5 years. In September 2004 a company called Move your Mobile contacted me and asked if I’d like to upgrade – the condition being of course that I stayed with Orange another 12 months. So I said yes, no paperwork exchanged hands (which I now realise was a huge mistake on my part), they duly sent the phone and I was very happy. A couple of weeks ago I finally got round to thinking “hmm ‘bout time I was upgraded again, why aren’t the dealers calling me?” So I ring Orange, only to be told that I’m actually locked into my contract until Sept 2006 because MyM claimed I’d signed up for two years in Sept 2004. This being the first I’d heard of this, I was somewhat shocked to say the least. I didn’t even know they did two year contracts. much less verbal ones. Why would want to lock themselves in any longer than they had to? Anyway, they gave me the dealers number, which turned out to belong to an organisation called ‘The Move Group’ of companies who helpfully explained that Move your Mobile had gone into liquidation last year. And you’re probably way ahead of me on this one but yes, their paperwork had vanished with them...

The guy I spoke to at The Move Group effectively told me it was nothing to do with them, although I have no idea how true this is: they could well be the same outfit for all I know. Googling and the Companies House website revealed nada. So I go back to Orange and to cut a long and sorry story short, they begrudgingly agreed to get their ‘Dealer Support Team’ to look into Move your Mobile. But even assuming they do ever get back to me (ha!), I don’t see what they can do if the company really has gone bust. It’s just my word against the word of some shabby salesman from a company that doesn’t even exist anymore. The only thing Orange can tell me with any certainty is that if I walk away now I’ll be liable for paying the remainder of my contract in the same way that any defaulting customer would be. Obviously I’m not going to do that but given that it’s highly unlikely I can get out of the contract, I’ve already marked in my diary the date in August on which I can give 30 days notice of telling them what they can do with it.

I just can’t believe its standard practice for mobile phone companies to take a verbal communication of contract details from any old dealer when they know they get more commission on a two year contract than a one year contract. They could say anything! And clearly in my case, someone did. How are they allowed to do this?

Does anyone know of a way of getting through to the complaints dept at Orange so I can try and sort this out please? I did try choosing the ‘I’m thinking of leaving Orange’ option (they don’t have an ‘I’m absolutely, definitely leaving this pitiful excuse of a communications outfit if it’s the last thing I do’ option). Sadly all that got me was a “you need to speak to general enquiries”. So I asked for the number combination as it wasn’t an option I’d ever come across and that led me to the ‘broken handset replacement’ line *sigh*

I also thought about emailing direct from the site but they don’t answer account specific queries for ‘security reasons’, although interestingly they are not quite so reticent about accepting payments.

So… any thoughts would be very, very, very gratefully received! I’m not even that bothered about an upgrade now (well obviously I am a bit!), I’m just so angry that some fly by night company can lie on my behalf like that and Orange can just wash their hands of it.

Finally, in the unlikely event anybody is still reading this, I’m really sorry for the rant…

DP aka Sarah

mobilegossip

E-Mail the Chief Executive of Orange or the Executive Office heres the addresses.

Email addresses are sanjiv.ahuja@orange.co.uk and executive.office@orange.co.uk .

crystal_clear

One question that springs to mind is Orange claim you are in a 2 year contract. Then why not ask them to supply copies of any such agreement that you have so called signed up for. There is a letter template somewhere on site that sets it out perfect try looking in Debt Free Wanabee thread on here.
I think you have to send letter along with £1 or £2 and they have a few weeks to respond and failure to do so would render the contract void and you are off the hook just get pac code and leave.
Well I think it should be that simple but a more knowledgable MSE'er will correct me if i am wrong.
Good Luck

RightRevBod

I would think that if you do not have a signed contract, the dealer does not have a signed contract, and Orange do not have a signed contract, then no contract exists.

If you make a statement that no contract exists, then surely it is upto Orange to prove that it does. I would ask for the PAC code. If you are happy to stay with Orange (this problem not withstanding) then see what they will offer you.

If you want to go elsewhere, then serve them notice of cancelation via recorded delivery (or go the PAC code route) and stop paying them after 30 days.

Woby_Tide

As most deals are struck over the internet and phone nowadays I'd say a signed contract is very rare but a contract will surely exist even so far that the retailer was to claim thieir commission(before going belly up)

crystal_clear

Woby_Tide wrote:

As most deals are struck over the internet and phone nowadays I'd say a signed contract is very rare but a contract will surely exist even so far that the retailer was to claim thieir commission(before going belly up)

Just wanted to add to that that internet deals you agree a contract on line by accepting terms and conditions but as for phone contracts I was under the impression that they send out the contract for you to sign and send back and if you failed to do so you would be in breach so they would want the phone back or full payment sending for it.

RightRevBod

As you are efectively agreeing to a credit agreement (you make the calls, then pay for them later), would it not be a breach of the Consumer Credit Act to not send a copy of the contract to you?

Steve_xx

RightRevBod wrote:

I would think that if you do not have a signed contract, the dealer does not have a signed contract, and Orange do not have a signed contract, then no contract exists.

If you make a statement that no contract exists, then surely it is upto Orange to prove that it does. I would ask for the PAC code. If you are happy to stay with Orange (this problem not withstanding) then see what they will offer you.

If you want to go elsewhere, then serve them notice of cancelation via recorded delivery (or go the PAC code route) and stop paying them after 30 days.

This is not so. The original poster will be deemed to have accepted that a contract is in existence since she has made several payments. It is not an absolute necessity for a contract to be signed before it comes into existence. Though obviously, proof is easiest if a signed document is present.

Also, if as you say, you serve Orange notice of 30 days to quit, then you are absolutely acknowledging the fact that there is a contract in existence.

If you simply stop paying them, they will try to recover from you and they will inform Experian, and that would be most unhelpful.

The original poster is not disputing that there is a contract, but is in fact disputing the length of it.

RightRevBod

Steve_xx wrote:

This is not so. The original poster will be deemed to have accepted that a contract is in existence since she has made several payments. It is not an absolute necessity for a contract to be signed before it comes into existence. Though obviously, proof is easiest if a signed document is present.

Also, if as you say, you serve Orange notice of 30 days to quit, then you are absolutely acknowledging the fact that there is a contract in existence.

If you simply stop paying them, they will try to recover from you and they will inform Experian, and that would be most unhelpful.

The original poster is not disputing that there is a contract, but is in fact disputing the length of it.

As you say the OP is not disputing that there is a contract. If it is the OP's belief that the contract was one year, and serves notice to cancel anytime after that period, it is upto the other party to prove that the contract was for a longer period.

If they cannot prove this, then theOP should be able to get any black arks on his credit record removed under the Data Protection Act.

Steve_xx

RightRevBod wrote:

As you say the OP is not disputing that there is a contract. If it is the OP's belief that the contract was one year, and serves notice to cancel anytime after that period, it is upto the other party to prove that the contract was for a longer period.

If they cannot prove this, then theOP should be able to get any black arks on his credit record removed under the Data Protection Act.

No, I disagree.

It may well be that the original posters' belief that the contract was for one year only. That in itself does not automatically absolve the person from the performance of the contract. Nor does it allow for the person to stop payments prior to the end of the contract. This may well prove to be disasterous from a credit rating point of view and I would not advise this course.

Instead I would advise the individual to negotiate with Orange, in writing. If the individual felt that the matter could not be resolved amicably, then I would advise invlolving Trading Standards and/or Otelo.

There may well be some scope in the idea of temporarily suspending/witholding payments to Orange, pending discussion and/or involvement of outside agencies, but this should be clearly communicated to Orange. Also, suspension should only be considered once the disputed time period had been entered. Doing this will delay Orange in trying to recover monies they say are owed and it will also deter them from making reference to a credit agency.

jumper_2

Orange don't have a leg to stand on after 12 months, unless they can prove you were told it is 24 months which asides being unusual and pointless unless you got a significantly better deal than available elsewhere, they won't be able to do anything particularly as the business has conviently 'disappeared'. Ask them what happened to your free upgrade after 12 monthss, whether any other dealer offers 24 contracts & whether they are paid extra commission (they aren't..) etc, they're giving you the full runaround here I'm afraid.

And would "legal eagles" who say you don't need proof (paper, electronic, verbal or otherwise) to enforce a contract like this and by paying for 13 months you are agreed to it, subsitute eagle for idiot.