How to defend this speeding fine?

Welshwoofs

I'll attempt to keep the background as short as possible

In a nutshell, my Father asked me to sell his car for him on Ebay last month (he's a technophobe). He drove the car from his home in Devon to my home in N.Wales and then went off on a 3 week holiday abroad. Whilst the car was in my keep and up for sale on a Classified ad in Ebay I had a number of men come and have a look at it and take it for a test drive. A few weeks later it was sold. My Father returned from holiday to find a speeding fine in the post from N.Wales police dated from when he was away so, after talking to me, he filled in my name and address as being the person responsible for the car.

A few weeks later I received a speeding notice as 'person responsible for car'. I could see immediately from the date and time that I wasn't the driver - it was, in fact one of the people who turned up to view and test drive the car. This particular person didn't proceed to purchase so I had no record of his name or address. I therefore filled in the section of the speeding notice stating I was the driver and attached a letter explaining the circumstances, stating it wasn't actually me (as their photographic evidence would show) but that I didn't have the contact details for the person driving.

I've now received a letter from N.Wales police stating their intention to take me to magistrates court for "failing to supply details of the driver" and have no idea what I'm supposed to do next. The bottom line is that I cannot supply the information - all I remember is his first name and the fact he came from Bolton, I have no contacts! Although I filled in my details as the driver and told them I'd have to take the wrap since I had no details, they're not accepting that! What I'm really worried about is that I seem to remember from the original speeding notice that if they took you to court and you lost, then got nine points on your licence.

Does anyone have any idea what on earth I can do? I really don't want 9 points and a large fine for failing to supply something I have no possible way to obtain.

bargepole

Welshwoofs wrote: »

Does anyone have any idea what on earth I can do? I really don't want 9 points and a large fine for failing to supply something I have no possible way to obtain.

Oh dear, oh dear - you couldn't have done this more wrong if you'd tried.

First of all, your father didn't get a speeding fine in the post, he got a Notice of Intended Prosecution, which carries a legal obligation to name the driver. He should not have put your name down if you weren't driving at the time of the offence.

Next, you have nominated yourself as the driver - which you weren't - and said that the actual driver was some untraceable driver from Ebay. If you let a car be driven by someone else, you must always make sure that a) they are insured, and b) you have their full name and address details in case they get pinged.

You will be summonsed for Failure to Furnish Information under Section 172 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988, for which the maximum penalty is 6 points and £1000 fine. The speeding offence can't be prosecuted, as they have no driver to charge.

Most Courts take a dim view of "mystery ebay buyers", along with "au pair now returned to Croatia" and "my cousin's mate from Australia", so you can expect to be hit hard on this one.

Welshwoofs

bargepole wrote: »

Most Courts take a dim view of "mystery ebay buyers", along with "au pair now returned to Croatia" and "my cousin's mate from Australia", so you can expect to be hit hard on this one.

Well I couldn't really pretend it was me given I'm a female and their photographic evidence will show it's a male in the photo!

I have a dated receipt from Autotrader (where the car was also for sale) plus the classified from Ebay can be printed out so I can prove it was for sale at the time.

Why on earth do courts take a dim view of this situation if you have proof the car was for sale and the police's own proof will show it wasn't me driving? People do tend to want to test drive cars before they purchase and I doubt too many private sellers take the full name and address of everyone who does so.

pinkshoes

Did you arrange the insurance for this person to drive the car, or did they arrange their own? If they were insured (which legally they would have to be to drive it on the road!), then can some sort of search not be carried out to find out their details through the insurance on that numberplate?

silkyuk9

What i'm thinking is the OP presumed that the potential buyer has there own insurance, like me im fully comp and i can drive anyones car with their permission. I have been in situations beofre were i have been to buy a car from a private sale and the seller has not asked for any of my details, im sure this happens in most cases.

I think though in this case the owner or the person who is looking after the car is at fault as they should have made sure they had deatails of who ever was driving.

Its a mistake anyone can make, but in reality who ever is the owner or carer should have asked for id at the very least, lets face it its a car with the keys in the ignition, that person could have been a thief and was going to nick it.

Personally i cant see any way out of this.

If it was me i would have said, 'I was on holiday that week, someone must have used it without my permission'. But saying that would that have made any difference.

Im sure you are going to have to seek legal advise, but at the end of the day i think you will get a fine and have some points on your licence.

espresso

Welshwoofs wrote: »

People do tend to want to test drive cars before they purchase and I doubt too many private sellers take the full name and address of everyone who does so.

So were you not in the car during these test drives? A male passenger was recently also convicted when his female partner committed the driving offence.

Conor_3

Just to add a bit more bad news...

The Police could ask your father to provide proof of the driver having insurance to drive the vehicle. If that can't be produced, he might find himself getting 6 points on his licence.

photome

Welshwoofs wrote: »

Well I couldn't really pretend it was me given I'm a female and their photographic evidence will show it's a male in the photo!

I have a dated receipt from Autotrader (where the car was also for sale) plus the classified from Ebay can be printed out so I can prove it was for sale at the time.

Why on earth do courts take a dim view of this situation if you have proof the car was for sale and the police's own proof will show it wasn't me driving? People do tend to want to test drive cars before they purchase and I doubt too many private sellers take the full name and address of everyone who does so.

Because potentially you let someone drive a vehicle in your care without insurance. the fact that most sellers would do the same thing, doesnt make it right.

I think you need proper legal advice though not from a chat forum as it doesnt look to good.

Welshwoofs

espresso wrote: »

So were you not in the car during these test drives? A male passenger was recently also convicted when his female partner committed the driving offence.

No, I wasn't in the car at the time, I was working (I work from home).

Someone else here mentioned why I'd do that when the car could be nicked. True it could have been, but it'd have been a little silly to do that as the viewers left their cars with me.

I should also say that I took out temporary insurance on the car whilst it was up for sale (it was still insured by Father at the time too).

At this point could I tell them that having had a good look through diaries etc I've realised that it was me driving at that particular time and just take a hit for 3 points and a smaller fine? (I didn't drive that day and the only reason I admitted it wasn't me in the first place was because they said they had photographic evidence...although in their recent letter they've refused to let me see that evidence).

ozvaldinho

Ignore most of what has been said on here so far, especially by the resident trolls.
You may well be prosecuted for failing to supply the details of the person driving at the time. I doubt very much you'll be prosecuted for the speeding or insurance issues. It's six points and a fine.
However, normally it would be the registered keeper of the car who is responsible for supplying the details of the driver. Isn't this your father in this case? It seems you've confused the case by admitting you were the driver.

Once you've cleared up the matter of who is legally responsible for identifying the driver at the time of the offence, then you need to prepare your defence: namely that you've tried your best to identify who was the driver at the time. You'll need all the evidence you can gather to support you: the photos from the camera, adverts, phone records, emails and anything else you can get your hands on. Put this all together and try to prove 'due diligence', that you've done everything reasonably pracicable to identify the driver. Maybe you could ask the police to look up his mobile number if you still have it?

You need a lawyer, some sympathetic magistrates and some good advice, the guys on Pepipoo are way more clued up than us. Liasing with the police to help identify the driver will greatly increase the chances of the case being dropped.

Good luck!

ozvaldinho

Welshwoofs wrote: »

Someone else here mentioned why I'd do that when the car could be nicked. True it could have been, but it'd have been a little silly to do that as the viewers left their cars with me.

On an off-topic point, it's quite common for thieves to leave a stolen car behind and make off with a fresh set of wheels.