ethical investments

tradetime

springer712 wrote: »

i rest my case...

Blah99 wrote: »

For any particular reason?

Perhaps it's tired

springer712

Blah99 wrote: »

For any particular reason?

One would've expected the VICE fund to have delivered pretty good returns even in a downturn such as this one. But evidently not, at least not in the last 12 months. Perhaps therefore this is a case of divine justice? On the other hand the Lord would probably be deemed too regulatory by the markets...

So what have you got to lose by investing ethically? If you don't and you go for funds such as the VICE fund you'll lose out anyway. Let your conscience be your guide....
Is there a VIRTUE fund out there?

Blah99

springer712 wrote: »

One would've expected the VICE fund to have delivered pretty good returns even in a downturn such as this one. But evidently not, at least not in the last 12 months. Perhaps therefore this is a case of divine justice? On the other hand the Lord would probably be deemed too regulatory by the markets...

So what have you got to lose by investing ethically? If you don't and you go for funds such as the VICE fund you'll lose out anyway. Let your conscience be your guide....
Is there a VIRTUE fund out there?

I had a quick look at the VICE page but couldn't find a breakdown of the portfolio. Looking at their top 10 investments they mostly seem good choices (I'd drop Wynn though), and I think the fund will perform well in the future.

You have nothing to lose by investing in ethical companies if you actually have a reasoned argument that explains why they will give good returns. You have everything to lose if you choose to ignore a huge segment of the markets simply because you believe they're unethical.

Anyway it's hard for me to give a reasoned discussion because you don't actually back up your assertions with facts or details. That, and the fact that you believe God has a hand in the markets (when I have reliable info that says he only bets on horses).

orangeslimes

Blah99 wrote: »

You have nothing to lose by investing in ethical companies if you actually have a reasoned argument that explains why they will give good returns. You have everything to lose if you choose to ignore a huge segment of the markets simply because you believe they're unethical.

I disagree- if you invest money in a company you are supporting it- if that company makes nuclear weapons and you believe nuclear weapons are terrible then it is frankly a bit hyprocrital to fund them...I suppose it depends if your only aim it to make money!?
Also ethical investment doesn't always just mean avoiding investing in companies because they are unethical- some schemes use positive criteria, others practice engagement (i.e. using shareholder power to try and change the way a company acts)
(although whether ethical investment actual changes anything- or most ethical funds are meaningful is another question)

dunstonh

How far do you go though. Do you rule out the company that makes nuclear weapons? Do you rule out the company that supplies nuts and bolts to the company that makes nuclear weapons? Do you rule out the technology companies that supply hardware and software that runs the computers of the company that makes nuclear weapons.....

Ian_W

springer712 wrote: »

One would've expected the VICE fund to have delivered pretty good returns even in a downturn such as this one. But evidently not, at least not in the last 12 months.

Why? It surely suffers the same drawbacks that ethical funds do in that it restricts it's investments to a narrowly defined area. If that area does well the fund does, if it does badly ...
Or do you think that when the going gets tough, the tough get unethical?

Do you rule out the company that supplies nuts and bolts to the company that makes nuclear weapons? Do you rule out the technology companies that supply hardware and software that runs the computers of the company that makes nuclear weapons.....

Steady on, you've got me brain hurting!!

Blah99

orangeslimes wrote: »

I disagree- if you invest money in a company you are supporting it- if that company makes nuclear weapons and you believe nuclear weapons are terrible then it is frankly a bit hyprocrital to fund them...I suppose it depends if your only aim it to make money!?

Unless you have a personal stake in a company, your only aim is most certainly to make money. I didn't buy a bunch of Serco shares because I thought they could use a bit of cash to upgrade their coffee machines, I bought them because I believe I will make money from them. If I don't make money they will get sold, that's it.

dunstonh makes the perfect point about how far down the road you go with ethical investing. Also consider the flipside - if you are that concerned about ethics, why are you denying funding to companies who employ people? Those people need their company to do well so they get their salaries paid, can pay their mortgages and buy presents for the kids. But hold on, this has got all emotional now...

Emotions should be kept totally separate from investing, because emotional attachment is a big problem where money is concerned. It's what causes people to make bad decisions, throw good money after bad, ride losses and take gains too early. Ethical investing is a form of emotional attachment - you're making decisions with your "heart", not your head.

springer712

Ethical investing is NOT a form of emotional attachment.
Ethical investing is about beliefs and value systems, based on rational argument and thought - the head, not the heart.

springer712

so, after all this banter (and thanks to all who've contributed), how many of you out there have included ethical investing in their new year's resolution list? any takers?

gozomark

not me, but I'm 100% cash anyway