Some of you are vultures

tesuhoha

bobbybee2 wrote: »

I am a bit confused by the term 'vultures'.

If there weren't any 'vultures' - what would happen?

The house would never be sold, it would be repossessed and you would get nothing.

The alternative to a 'vulture' is someone who comes and pays whatever you want for your house. They're known as a fictional character - file along with Santa Claus and the tooth fairy.

The 'vultures' aren't the cause of the problem here!

Goodness me I never actually said that buying a repossession is wrong. I have said already that my own kids can't afford to buy a house. What I was talking about when I said vultures was the attitude of some people who are gleefully anticipating the house price crash and making unpleasant comments.

I am sorry if you have misunderstood what I have been saying. I am really sorry for FTBs who can't afford to buy but I was saying spare a thought for those poor people who have lost their homes. As you mention fairytales I would say they are not all wicked ogres consumed the HPI greed that they are being portrayed as on some threads. Some just want somewhere to live like everyone else.

tesuhoha

Saver-Rob wrote: »

You may class me as one. I have worked, saved and am looking @ next year as a good time to start to look for property. If it is a reposession and cheap then I'm all for it. I'm sorry that people are losing out but if it ever happened to me I wouldnt begrudge somebody else my former home as it is not their fault I couldnt pay my debts.

No I would not class you as one.

tesuhoha

caveman38 wrote: »

Ok, I concede that your husband is now finding work hard and is now working longer hours for less pay. I apologise for the fact that I did not beleive you. As I have friends that are both plumbers and Corgi certified gas fitters and the fact that I also live in the SE. I have seen first hand the sort of monety that they were raking in and in most cases still are. Perhaps the pertinent point is they are private company contractors and work in houses and not on sites.
Beleive me it is very hard for me and maybe a lot of the general public to feel a lot of sympathy with various sectors of the working masses as perhaps we feel that we have been ripped off over the years.
Very few people feel symapthy for say:
a)Estate agts who were most probarly on £100K when the market was bouyant, but are now having to draw the reins in now houses are not selling
b) London cabbies who earned a similar amount but now complain that far too many people were allowed to do "the knowledge" and now have to share their work. Also they have to compete with a lot of unlicenced mini cabs.
Most people will also include plumbers and heating engineers. They would only be aware of what they are charged for callouts and work done in their houses unaware that those that worked on site are perhaps now out of work.
The everyday guy who earns £25 - £35K can only dream of earning that sort of dosh.
Another example com,es to mind. 3 years ago I had replacement windows put in the back of my house. The guy was very chatty as we had a common interest in music. He told me that he got £120 per window fitted. He had a resultbwith my house as the back were all picture windows ad he fitted 5 of them in less than 2 days. He informed me that he earned £80K a year. I kid you not.
The bottom line is that while things were good people in the building trade had it really good and I mean really good.
Regarding Eastern Europeans. Two guys in my street have had building work on their fronts (drives and walls) done this year. The work is first class and cost two thirds that of a british builder who too often perform poor work.
Again I am sorry for not beleiving you and I do not wish anyone hardship but I am delighted in the fact that I can get work done without getting screwed.

I understand what you are saying. I won't lie my husband did earn some decent money when he was on price work but he had to work flat out for it. He has never earned the massive sums you talk about. He now says that plumbing is finished as a well paid job because whenever it picks up more Eastern European workers will flood in to undercut everyone. It is good for the customer yes. However, I would ask each of you to imagine your job whatever you earn, then imagine also having to pay out for tools, van, insurance training all the time. Then imagine Eastern Europeans flooding the market with whatever your work is and undercutting you so that although you had to pay for all these things you could no longer earn a living wage. This is what has happened to us. We wouldn't mind £25k or £35k but there is massive competition even for plumbing jobs at £10 per hour. That was what he found when he was out of work luckily he has found something now but there are a lot of people out there in the same position. Also just because they are Polish or whatever that does not necessarily mean good. They rip you off too and a lot of them are not Corgi Registered and they will disappear into the sunset if there is a problem and no one can trace them.

caveman38

tesuhoha wrote: »

He has no A Levels or degree not because of his lack of intelligence but because of his lack of opportunities in life. I do realise that dentists and doctors are highly skilled and perhaps I should not have made the comparison but becoming a plumber is not easy and an understanding of electrics is required and maths is needed. Not anyone can do it but if you call someone with good GCSEs an average joe then maybe. However, I would say in that case that an average joe can go on to university and become a doctor etc.

For christs sake lets get things in proportion here.
The plumbers I know left school at 16 with GCSE's/ CSE's not O'Levels and went straight to work on apprenticeships with either BG or big private firms. 3 years later they were qualified and in recent years have had to take on the extra burden of cousrses and exams for their Corgi certificates. Most of them struggle but by their own admission scrape through every 2 years.
Now doctors require 3 good A levels AAB for example (aged 18) and only 40% qualify for a 4 year degree course at a "red brick university" (aged 22) followed by 3 years or more post graduate work in hospitals (aged 25) before they choose their specialism. Then they start to work 60 -80 hours a week for a reasonable salalary before they earn the big bucks (aged 28+).
A big difference I think. Why do you think 2nd. year undergraduates doing bachelors degrees in accountancy etc. were abandoning these degrees to sign up for plumbing apprenticeships 3 years ago. Doesn't that tell you something?

BTW I hadn't read your post above before i posted this.

mustrum_ridcully

tesuhoha wrote: »

Because I made the initial post I seem to have been accused of being a HPI. I'm not exactly sure what that is but I imagine its someone who's been welcoming the house price increases.

You just don't get it do you? You came here and accused a load of people of being vultures purely because they were happy house prices were becoming cheaper / more affordable.

You're clearly upset about your own circumstances (and no one can blame you for that) so you lashed out (once again understandable).

Trouble is you lashed out at people who can't afford a house because they've become too expensive and are pretty upset about it. Then there are the people who warned everyone that tough times were ahead, weren't listened to and are now feel as if they are being attacked for warning people and thereby somehow causing the crash and guess what their upset. Yes and you've lashed out at people who seen property flippers or BTL'ers get "rich" and cause a property price boom (and therefore the subsequent crash) whilst they do a 9 to 5 job and are yep upset about it.

I've been on the net long enough to spot a flamewar and this thread has all the hallmarks - a touchy subject, strongly held views and upset/annoyed people.

POSSETTE

could you not say that everyone who decsended on Woolworths in last couple of weeks were vultures too??..and anyone who jumps in to buy reduced products from an ailing firm vultures too...both of which im sure most of us have done..

greenwheels007

I am sorry if I got drawn in to the flamewar!
You make a great point there, it is an emotional subject.
I am absolutely at peace with my own decisions but admit I rose to the fairly incoherent rantings of others who are in precarious positions
Thank goodness for a steady head on the thread (that's poetic!)

tesuhoha

mustrum_ridcully wrote: »

You just don't get it do you? You came here and accused a load of people of being vultures purely because they were happy house prices were becoming cheaper / more affordable.

You're clearly upset about your own circumstances (and no one can blame you for that) so you lashed out (once again understandable).

Trouble is you lashed out at people who can't afford a house because they've become too expensive and are pretty upset about it. Then there are the people who warned everyone that tough times were ahead, weren't listened to and are now feel as if they are being attacked for warning people and thereby somehow causing the crash and guess what their upset. Yes and you've lashed out at people who seen property flippers or BTL'ers get "rich" and cause a property price boom (and therefore the subsequent crash) whilst they do a 9 to 5 job and are yep upset about it.

I've been on the net long enough to spot a flamewar and this thread has all the hallmarks - a touchy subject, strongly held views and upset/annoyed people.

I did not lash out at people unable to afford houses. I only spoke of the people who were gloating about the current situation. Surely you cannot deny that there were people doing this. I have been reading these comments for sometime and the last thing they appear to be is upset. I am not in support of those who have made money out of the house price boom, in fact I despise them. However, behind all these cheap house prices is also a lot of human misery and I did not feel that there has been enough mention of this. I know that FTBs need to take advantage of the crash to get on the housing ladder but they are only doing what others have tried to do before them. I think I was misunderstood although I tried to make it clear that I was sorry for both sides.

tesuhoha

POSSETTE wrote: »

could you not say that everyone who decsended on Woolworths in last couple of weeks were vultures too??..and anyone who jumps in to buy reduced products from an ailing firm vultures too...both of which im sure most of us have done..

No, they are not vultures but if they had gloated about the workers losing their jobs then they would have been.

greenwheels007

tesuhoha wrote: »

I did not lash out at people unable to afford houses. I only spoke of the people who were gloating about the current situation. Surely you cannot deny that there were people doing this. I have been reading these comments for sometime and the last thing they appear to be is upset. I am not in support of those who have made money out of the house price boom, in fact I despise them. However, behind all these cheap house prices is also a lot of human misery and I did not feel that there has been enough mention of this. I know that FTBs need to take advantage of the crash to get on the housing ladder but they are only doing what others have tried to do before them. I think I was misunderstood although I tried to make it clear that I was sorry for both sides.

I can undersatnd that people who have been waiting to buy for years and at last may be able to afford to do so may be a little excited at the prospect.
And you have already said that your husband did earn good wages, so he was as you say making money on the back of the housing boom.
Just ask him one question..
Is he aware of tradespeople, when the going was good, being asked to quote for a small job. They pick a crazy price and know that they have more work if they don't get the job. If the cuctomer says yes then they are quids in.
I know an electrician and a builder who have done this. They didn;t need the work so just came up with a crazy price and some people took it, others didn't.