Council Jobs to Go -10% Staff Saving Needed

Old_Slaphead

[quotears =Davesnave;16776447]

Not an insignificant number also get tired of the poor conditions and go out, permanently, into this 'real world,' where they become richer & more successful.

[/quote]

Interesting that - 6 times in my working career I've applied for LA jobs (all of which according to the job description I've been eminently suited) but not even been offered an interview.

My partner, who's worked in LA for 25 years says most jobs are filled internally. She also says that recruiting is a nightmare with all the hoops that have to be gone through (including having 3 senior interviewers, at least 1 of both sexes, oven for the most junior position......how much time and organisation does that take?). Most positions are filled in as shoe ins from other depts. so external advertising is a waste of time. I also understand that disadvantaged minorities are guaranteed interviews even if they are not suited to the job.

So much for significant numbers of LA staff making it in the outside world. Same applies for private sector trying to get in. It's about time we stopped having this demarcation - a bit of cross-fertilisation of ideas and practices would be a good thing.

BTW conditions and pressures can also be grim in private sector - many employees are only on minimum rates of pay and get precious few 'perks'

Poppy9

Old_Slaphead wrote: »

For the vast majority of private sector workers (many, many who are on minimum wage, don't receive generous holidays, generous pensions, flexitime working or even sick pay) I'd be interested in to know what perks are generally available to us that you don't get. Please advise.

• Staff discounts/share schemes
• Christmas bonus
• Performance related bonus
• Support from employer. If someone complains about you they don't assume the complainer is correct and launch a full disciplinary hearing even if they know the complaint is malacious.
• Non regulated time off? i.e. I applied for unpaid leave of absence when told my mother had only weeks to live and wanted to care for her at home. I was told my request had to go to council for approval and the next meeting was in 6 weeks! A friend who works for a bank in a similar predicament had no such issues.
• Oh and how could I forget. People don't call you sh!te names just because you are a public sector worker:rolleyes:

How many holidays do the private sector get, it's a long time since I worked there?

LA leave entitlement is 20/25/30 days for upto 5/10/10+ years service but I think it varies depending on LA.

Police:
Under 2 years service — 22 days
Over 2 years service — 25 days
Over 5 years service — 25 days
Over 10 years service — 27 days
Over 15 years service —28 days
Over 20 years service — 30 days

Poppy9

Old_Slaphead wrote: »

[
Interesting that - 6 times in my working career I've applied for LA jobs (all of which according to the job description I've been eminently suited) but not even been offered an interview.

My partner, who's worked in LA for 25 years says most jobs are filled internally.

This isn't typical of all LA.

I've done recruitment and have gone through the selection process from reading the application forms (sometimes as many as 100 for 1 job), to interviewing an appointing.

I have to score the application form on about 8 points and the top quota will be interviewed. Usually 2 or 3 people independently score the application forms and then meet to discuss the top candidates we want to interview. Last time I interviewed only 2 people were internal to the LA the other 5 were all external. An internal person did get the job that time, but only because at interview and test they were head and shoulders above others. This person had been working for the LA about 3 years (but had spent the previous 20 years in the private sector). Two other new starters in my office are both from the private sector. Internal candidates didn't even get interviews despite working in the office and having relevant qualifications (makes for happy staff:rolleyes: ).

To get an interview in my LA you have to make sure your application form addresses the key requirements in the job spec. So many people ignore this, despite the application form clearly telling you to do it.

Old_Slaphead

I don't know many employers who offer more than the odd 1 of those.

Current holidays (more than 10 years with employer) = 20 days.

My friend at North Tyneside Council (whatever they're called these days) gets 35 days + a couple of extra stats + flexitime + callout supplements + pension + sick pay + at least 2 weeks training per year.

nb public servants get discounted rates on leisure services - they also ofter get discounts on insurances etc

Old_Slaphead

Poppy9 wrote: »

To get an interview in my LA you have to make sure your application form addresses the key requirements in the job spec. So many people ignore this, despite the application form clearly telling you to do it.

My partner also does extensive recruiting and would concur with most of your explained procedure. However, LA applicants know the specific way to fill in the application form which a lot of outsiders don't. This often precludes external but suitable candidates because the interview panelists can't tick the right boxes (ie give high enough points).

Poppy9

Old_Slaphead wrote: »

I don't know many employers who offer more than the odd 1 of those.

Current holidays (more than 10 years with employer) = 20 days.

My friend at North Tyneside Council (whatever they're called these days) gets 35 days + a couple of extra stats + flexitime + callout supplements.

Blooming heck 35 days plus extra statutory days. We lost our extra stat days at least 12 years ago in return for extra leave. They then removed the extra leave 2 years later!

I don't even get paid overtime. LA employers above a certain spinal point (not in work today so can't look but the salary is about £19k) do not get paid overtime and never have in the 20+ years I've worked for the LA. Many of my colleagues work weekends at busy times for no pay, though they can claim their travelling costs to work for those days.

I don't get call out either as there isn't much call for call out of office based staff:D

Flexi time you can have upto 1 day per month but you must have the hours on your clock before you take the time off. I only work part-time so I'm not on flexi. Not all staff in my LA are allowed onto the flexi time system. Usually only full time back office full time staff. Anyone dealing with the public has to be available from 8.30-5pm (but they are allowed lunch!).

When I was full time and on flexi we used to joke that if we died before we had used up our excess flexi hours we had acrrued it would be devastating and therefore to get one over our employer we should always have the max. -12 hours on our clock!:p

When OH worked private sector (retail) he always had 6 weeks pay bonus in January after Xmas, plus an all expenses Christmas do, plus a very generous staff discount, plus sick pay, plus paid time off for family emergencies (his father was very ill for 25 years and if he fell or collapsed his mother rang for him to pick him up as she couldn't).

Poppy9

Old_Slaphead wrote: »

My partner also does extensive recruiting and would concur with most of your explained procedure. However, LA applicants know the specific way to fill in the application form which a lot of outsiders don't. This often precludes external but suitable candidates because the interview panelists can't tick the right boxes (ie give high enough points).

There isn't staff training in how to fill in an application form for LA applicants. No one knows the first time but if you read the form properly and ask for feedback after recruitment finished then you can make sure you know what is required the next time. Alternatively as part of your preparation for applying for a job/interview you ask a LA worker how to fill in a form. This is true if you are applying private or public sector, you get advice in how to apply. Not knowing how to fill a form in is no excuse.

i.e. OH wanted to join police. He talked to serviing officers, who in turn referred him to higher up colleagues etc. who told him what he needed to do in preparation for applying. i.e. what fitness level he required, what written test he needed to pass, how to get through the role play and more importantly how to get through the paper sift of the application forms. All this was done before he even had an application form (police only recruit once a year).

Old_Slaphead

I know how to fill in forms - it's filling them in in such a way as to allow all the boxes to be ticked !

Dogmatic approach, as illustrated above. is probably indicitive of the huge cultural difference between public & private sector.

When I recruit I put advert in local paper. Get maybe 20 or 30 CVs. Select top 6 to interview - position usually filled within 2-4 weeks max. of start.

My parner (LA leisure services) started recruitment process by writing job description (for part-time assistant who left) in Aug - offered sucessful candidate job in Nov and hopes she will start early Jan. This was lowest grade p/t job. Though important to her she thought that interview didn't merit the attendance of 3 senior staff for 1 day + all other stuff on shortlisting, scoring etc etc

NigeT

Having been made redundant (with poor payouts) from private industry 4 times as companies collapsed, and had my occupational pension scheme nicked, I am highly sympathetic for the majority of workers who will lose their jobs, even though they will get pension rights written in stone, it appears.

BUT, I bitterley resent the "cost cutting" exercises I have personally seen amongst some public bodies which amount to:

1. Volunteer for ealrly retirement (if you are senior enough)
2. Get golden handshake
3. Go back to same job next day as a "consultant" (on very good money)
4. Have pension rights guaranteed by the government.

This doesn't make sense. It is divisive and is promoting a long term problem of those with, being paid for by those without. It just doesn't add up and is going to end in tears!!

Davesnave

Old_Slaphead wrote: »

[quotears =Davesnave;16776447]

Not an insignificant number also get tired of the poor conditions and go out, permanently, into this 'real world,' where they become richer & more successful.

So much for significant numbers of LA staff making it in the outside world. Same applies for private sector trying to get in. It's about time we stopped having this demarcation - a bit of cross-fertilisation of ideas and practices would be a good thing.

BTW conditions and pressures can also be grim in private sector - many employees are only on minimum rates of pay and get precious few 'perks'[/quote]

My evidence is only anecdotal and I only know about teachers, NHS staff & firefighters, but if have experience of a fair number, then I'd expect it happens reasonably often.

The obvious one is teachers getting fed up in LA schools and going private. I know a few who've agonised over this, but once they do it there aren't many regrets. Nurses, physios and the like also migrate to our local clinic. I've not seen too many people coming the other way, though a pretty dynamic Headteacher migrated out of the private sector into the school where I worked, so it can happen. I also have a friend who threw up a perfectly good headship in a rich suburb to take on a school in a sink area, which is almost the same thing!

I have older ex-public service friends making far more money in their businesses than they did as employees. They do things as diverse as wedding photography, printing and helping to run a successful steam railway. I don't think it is always money that drives them so much as just being in control and taking real decisions. My own business made enough for me to survive, but that wasn't the prime motivation, so much as just getting a feeling of control back in my life.

I know private sector jobs can have grim conditions, as I've done those too. It seems a bit laughable now, but I turned down a management job with a large company, still trading, because in the 70s it seemed such a narrow, controlled, and heavily demarcated environment compared with teaching.
Times change!

I agree that there should be more cross-fertilization and we do need fresh ideas about gaining value for money all-round, though the budgets I ran were never anything like enough, even for basics. Without private sponsors & parents we couldn't have provided properly at all.