Energy Direct Debits: Get money back & your payments lowered Discussion

jalexa

Stanch wrote: »

I tried to talk to them about this and basically the chap's argument was the classic "computer says we must increase it"

Will I ever get an explanation on how they have calculated this?
I wonder how many others are going to receive a 30%+ hike in their DDs.
It's an absolute disgrace!!

You are wrong about the 30%:D. Your £140 has left you £127 in credit. I calculate that the "£184" is a whopping 43% increase:(

Up to you how to deal with this. Regulations (SLC27.14) entitle you to a full explanation, so a failure to explain would be grounds to raise a formal complaint with British Gas. Regulations also entitle you to request a refund of credit at any time. The supplier must comply or explain any refusal.

I would complain about the lack of explanation ("computer says so" is not adequate) and then play a longer game and go for refund/recalc after a few months.

Stanch

Hi Jalexa,

Thanks for your reply.
What is Regulations (SLC27.14)you refer to?
Where can I read this regulation?

Rgds.

jalexa

Stanch wrote: »

What is Regulations (SLC27.14)you refer to?
Where can I read this regulation?

SLC stands for Standard Licence Condition.

Somewhere on the Ofgem website. Should be accessible here, but not working for some reason at the moment:(.

http://search.ofgem.gov.uk/search.aspx?aid=6581&pckid=755724950&pt=6018936&sw=standard+licence+conditions

Other links have been posted previously on MSE.

Verbatim post pending finding a link...

27.14 The licensee must provide to each such Domestic Customer an explanation in clear, plain and intelligible language of the basis upon which a fixed amount (and any variation of that fixed amount) has been determined.

27.15 Save where a clear and express Principal Term of the relevant Domestic Supply Contract provides otherwise, the licensee must take all reasonable steps to ensure that the fixed amount of the regular direct debit payment is based on the best and most current information available (or which reasonably ought to be available) to the licensee, including information as to the quantity of gas which the licensee reasonably estimates has been or will be supplied under the relevant Domestic Supply Contract.

27.16 Where any Credit has accumulated under a Domestic Supply Contract and the relevant Domestic Customer requests that the licensee do so, the licensee must, save where it is fair and reasonable in all the circumstances for the licensee not to do so, refund, in a timely manner, any Credit which has accumulated under that Domestic Supply Contract to the relevant Domestic Customer. Where the licensee considers that it is fair and reasonable in all the circumstances for it not to refund any Credit which has accumulated under a Domestic Supply Contract in accordance with this provision, it must inform the relevant Domestic Customer of its view and of the reasons for holding that view.

ALSOM

I wonder if anyone can help with advice, I'm sure what's just happened to us can't be right.

We've been paying £58 p/m for dual fuel with EDF. When we swapped I asked if they could do regular meter readings as I'm wheelchair bound, can't access the meter and have no wish for estimated bills to result in a sudden large bill or over-payment. EDF said this was possible and they would put that in place after the initial read for the swap took place. Everything had been fine.

Last week we were taken over our overdraft limit by a payment of £422.74 being taken by DD by EDF. When I discovered this I called thinking there had been an error as I had received no bill or notification. They informed me a recent meter reading had been done and it showed we owed them £422.74. Astounded I queried how this was possible as my bill shouldn't be estimated. They said it wasn't but then admitted that it had been in the six months between meter readings...over the coldest part of the year! They had no answer about why it had been so long between readings (but did later in the conversation tell me I could have supplied them with the information more regularly...then backtracked!).

They didn't seem open to helping us with the situation, in their opinion we owed the money and they had sent a bill, (even if it hadn't been received) so it was completely fair for them to take that much in one hit. Previously when I experienced an underpayment/overpayment the account was evened out then the DD was put up to cover the amount left owing and the amount of energy we would be using. I never dreamed it was possible for them to increase the DD to just take the balance like this.

I requested a copy of the bill be sent to me and that they send out all information about their complaints procedure too. Having received the bill but nothing else I called again two days ago....nothing so far.

Is what they've done even legal? I assume it must be as the bank allowed the payment. But I find it hard to believe they can alter the DD by so much without any questions being asked.
I only have their word they sent a bill and it's only my word to say I didn't receive it.
I wasn't going to change supplier but now I will no matter what the outcome of my complaint, if I can ever make it. But the reason I asked for regular meter readings was to stop this kind of thing happening (although I was expecting a bill and payment options rather than bank charges for going over my limit). How can I make sure I don't end up in this position again? I do now have a better idea of our power usage (we had just moved, circumstances had altered a lot and we had a baby when I changed to EDF), so I can better estimate our usage....but that doesn't alter my lack of access to our meter. I could ask family to do it but they already do such a lot to help me I really don't want to add to their burden. Do the energy companies have any obligation to do more regular readings or am I just asking them to be helpful?

Thank you.

jalexa

ALSOM wrote: »

I wonder if anyone can help with advice,

First of all welcome to the Forum and a particularly hot topic. It would be much better if you started a new thread. Click the blue button at the top left of the Gas & Electricity board.

Nick_PPS

I have a fixed price dual fuel contract with Scottish Power. This started in October last year. I had already been with them for about a year on another contract. When this new contract was set up, my monthly direct debit payments reflected my annual usage. My quarterly usage for the last 2 quarters has reduced, compared with previous year (and therefore I would expect at the end of a year I would be in surplus). However Scottish Power notified about a 25% increase in montly payments. I challenged this, and they have reduced this, but still a 15% hike. The reason for the increase is that my current balance is in deficit, and so they need to increase payments to bring it back in line. Of course it will be in deficit. My payments were based on annual spend divided by 12, and the first 6 months were winter months! I will now build up a big surplus over the summer, to the benefit of Scottish Power. This is surely underhand. I am landing up currently paying more on a fixed price contract when my year-on-year usage is lower.

jalexa

Nick_PPS wrote: »

Of course it will be in deficit. My payments were based on annual spend divided by 12, and the first 6 months were winter months! I will now build up a big surplus over the summer, to the benefit of Scottish Power. This is surely underhand.

The first thing you need to do is to establish by asking the date of your 'annual review'. Then decide whether you agree the date complies with "payment year".

Next you should ask for an email explanation of the calculation. A few years ago Scottish Power were able to provide me a convincing explanation of a changed payment. So it can be done and its a regulatory requirement.

Reducing consumption is not easily captured by the calculation. You need to establish if in all the circumstances of your submitted reads the projected consumption being calculated is reasonable.

And that every aspect of the calculation complies with any online information about the process. If not you have grounds for complaint.

Scottish_Power

Hi Nick PPS , if you need some help please email me at [EMAIL="onlinecomplaints@scottishpower.com"]onlinecomplaints@scottishpower.com[/EMAIL]

Thanks Lee-Anne @ scottishpower

digestive

I just switched to ovo energy due to pending/recent energy price hikes. Shocked and pretty devastated to find my old supplier charged me 73 a month for both gas and electricity ova have increased my dierct debit by 100% !!!! and are going to charged me 150, per month. They say this estimation is based on information i provided about my usage and home, I said i wanted to change this information and they said they would not be able to change this information. Also that they deliberately overcharge on an initial direct debit to ensure i don't underpay. I estimate that in 6 months time I will have overpaid by £440, if I had that much spare cash I would rather book a holiday!. I have said I cannot afford the direct debit and they have offered to reduce it by £15, still far too much. Unfortunately I opened my welcome pack after the cooling off period so am under contract for a year. I can withdraw but will need to pay them 60 for cancelling then also pay more elsewhere for my energy as the prices have already gone up. I have used Martins letter proforma to try to get them to reduce the direct debit, lets see what happens next. Has anyone got any advised to offer me, the increase is more than I can afford.

jalexa

digestive wrote: »

I just switched to ovo energy due to pending/recent energy price hikes. Shocked and pretty devastated to find my old supplier charged me 73 a month for both gas and electricity ova have increased my dierct debit by 100% !!!! and are going to charged me 150, per month. They say this estimation is based on information i provided about my usage and home, I said i wanted to change this information and they said they would not be able to change this information. Also that they deliberately overcharge on an initial direct debit to ensure i don't underpay.

First of all welcome to the forum. Your issue might have been better in it's own thread.

The OVO direct debit guide is one of the clearer supplier guides. http://www.ovoenergy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Understanding_the_link_between_your_Direct_Debit_and_energy_consumption.pdf I assume you have studied it.

The issue for you is not whether there is winter uplift but whether the uplift imposed on you is 25% of reasonable projected consumption.

In that context, if you had been a customer of your previous supplier for 12 months or more, you should have received an annual statement giving your consumption for the previous 12 months. Did you and if so what was your previous 12 months consumption? When you switched *exactly* what information did you provide about your usage and home?