Tiscali put us on LLU without our consent! What can we do?

esuhl

We have always had a BT line for calls, and for the past 5 years have had Tiscali's broadband-only service on that line. Having just migrated to Titan ADSL, we have been charged £47+VAT as a LLU migration fee (non-LLU migrations are free). Titan say that Tiscali put in their own equipment at the exchange even though they had neither asked nor told us!

So how would anyone who has a BT line and non-BT broadband know whether they are using LLU hardware at the exchange? And can Tiscali change us to LLU without even telling us, thus unwittingly forcing us to pay migration fees?

Thanks so much for any advice...

penrhyn

Chances are you have always been on Tiscali's LLU service for broadband.
Check your exchange name on Samknows and look for the LLU activation date.
If you are paying less than say £18 for your broadband then you would almost certainly on LLU.

esuhl

penrhyn wrote: »

Chances are you have always been on Tiscali's LLU service for broadband.
Check your exchange name on Samknows and look for the LLU activation date.
If you are paying less than say £18 for your broadband then you would almost certainly on LLU.

The Samknows site says that Tiscali's LLU was "Enabled as of 21/10/2007". Should they not have told us that they were changing the hardware? Having LLU means that we are liable for migration charges, so presumably, shortly after 21 October 2007, Tiscali changed the service they provided to us to our detriment and did not even tell us. Surely that can't be permitted..?

penrhyn

To rub salt in, when you were switched to LLU Tiscali would no longer have had to pay BT as the broadband carrier, so your monthly cost should have been reduced.
I don't see why you should have been charged for the migration though.
LLU migration is £40+ vat according to Titan's website.
I'd be a tad concerned that the ISP's office is a terraced house in Normanton Derby.

esuhl

penrhyn wrote: »

I don't see why you should have been charged for the migration though.

I don't see why I should pay to leave LLU, when I didn't ask to join LLU!!!

penrhyn wrote: »

LLU migration is £40+ vat according to Titan's website.

Ah... sorry - I must've got confused with the figures. £40+VAT is (or was when VAT was 17.5%) £47.

penrhyn wrote: »

I'd be a tad concerned that the ISP's office is a terraced house in Normanton Derby.

Errrr... I see what you mean about the ISP's address.... and I've called at least 5 or 6 times and spoken to the same person each time (hmmm....). On the bright side, he is very courteous, understands technology (unlike Tiscali) and is always at the end of the phone... from 9am-5pm, anyway... Titan ADSL scored number 1 for customer satisfaction according to one of the well-known DSL sites I looked at (DSL Reports or ISP Review I think). Fingers crossed, eh?

[Deleted User]

esuhl wrote: »

I don't see why I should pay to leave LLU, when I didn't ask to join LLU!!!

It's just the way it is, unfortunately. It's like saying "I don't want to pay for a knife so I can kill myself! I didn't ask to be born!" (stupid analogy, I know, but it works in my head at least...)

DatabaseError

penrhyn wrote: »

..I'd be a tad concerned that the ISP's office is a terraced house in Normanton Derby.

That is not the isp's address, which is here
Titan are a reseller of entanet's services (entanet do not sell directly to the public), enta are primarily a business broadband supplier, I've been a customer (through Vivaciti) for over a year, heading up for 2, and as I have a monthly contract and half a clue about what I want/expect from my ISP that is a good thing.
Don't be put off by the terraced house, it probably is a 1 or 2 man operation, as with most resellers, but the support is generally excellent, often with a 'personal touch' which is lost with big ISPs...oh, and they all speak English as a 1st language, and geek when required.

payless

would have thought its not tiscali's issue -
you paid them a fee to provide a service.

you are leaving - and its not them that are charging an extra fee - either to cancel or swap

its your choice to have the BB active by another provider

JohalaReewi

This happened a few years ago to many Plusnet customers. Plusnet decided it would be a good idea to migrate lots of their customers from BT to Tiscali LLU without asking or telling them. Customers only found out when the Tiscali equipment didn't work and they spent weeks with no broadband. The double whammy was that these customers then had to pay to be reconnected to BT so they could get a MAC code and leave Plusnet.

If you were with Tiscali broadband for 5 years and SamKnows said the Tiscali LLU went into your exchange in 2007, it is a fair bet that Tiscali moved your broadband from BT to their LLU (would reduce Tiscali's costs). Trouble is, to get off the Tiscali LLU back onto BT someone has to pay for the work. Tiscali are not likely to (you are leaving them). Titan might as a new customer offer but it sounds like they won't.

JohalaReewi

payless wrote: »

would have thought its not tiscali's issue -
you paid them a fee to provide a service.

you are leaving - and its not them that are charging an extra fee - either to cancel or swap

its your choice to have the BB active by another provider

It's not that black and white. The original broadband was provided over BT equipment. Well into the contract, Tiscali switched this to their own LLU equipment but didn't ask or tell the customer. Now the customer wants to end the service they find they have to pay to be put back onto the BT equipment which they were on in the first place (and thought they still were).

DatabaseError

It is very unlikely that Titan would offer free migration, BT make the charge and, as Titan (and other enta resellers) offer 1 month contracts, with very low margins, they cannot afford to absorb that cost, especially as the user may leave the service in a month, leaving the reseller with a £27+vat shortfall.
I do remember 1 reseller (aquiss or freeola?) did offer free connection at one time, whether that included llu migration I couldn't say, but I've not heard of it for a while, so it may be discontinued