National Express threatening court action Help!!

silkyuk9

Hi.

My daughter (16) traveled from york to Glasgow using national express train service. She bought the return ticket using her young persons card.

on the return journey a guard asked for her ticket and her card, she could not find her card and thought she had lost it. the guard said he would report it and asked for her name and address, he said she would have to pay the difference or go to court.

incidently she found her card but as a matter of fact it was at home and she had forgot to take it.

any way, today we have received a letter saying the national express want £17-50 within 7 days or court action would follow.

We have rung them up explaining that she did have a card but she had misplaced it but has located it. they were not interested. We could even give them the card id number to prove that she really did have a card.

still they are not bothered. They want the money, we have been told that regardless of were the card is if she cannot provide it on the train when requested then she is travelling on an invalid ticket.

We got no joy, it seems that they are not interested at all.

Can anyone help here or are we just flogging a dead horse and have to pay the £17-50.

Cheers

hewhoisnotintheknow

hmmm, how likely do you think it is they will take you to court, if likely i would just pay it as it would be less hastle

Hintza

I would just pay up. She should have both parts (ie ticket and card) and was therefore in breech of conditions of travel.

My 17 year old managed to leave his passport at home. Got train to Edinburgh and due to fly back to Stanstead.......nightmare!!

Neil_B

Hintza wrote: »

She should have both parts (ie ticket and card) and was therefore in breech of conditions of travel.

Is she? Quite possibly but do you know that as a fact?

very strange the negativity and repeated assumptions of guilt on this site in general. Money saving? How do you expect to save money if you roll over at the slightest hint of authority - without knowing if it has any basis?

I suggest OP check the Railway Byelaws to ascertain the legitimacy of their claim.

Also, don't national Express have an appeals process - supposedly independent and based in surrey somewhere?
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silkyuk9

The problem is we can take this to court but if they win we will have to pay £200.

This is the problem with this country, you dare not stand up to be counted because it might cost you more in the long run, money that we do not have,

in this case its better we just pay the money and suffer!

TimothyEBaldwin

The National Conditions of Carriage and and the Railcard conditions are quite clear, she did not have a valid ticket.

Since she started her journey at a station were tickets could be brought, and National Express East Coast do not have a penalty fare scheme, and do not advertise the sale of tickets on-board their trains, they can demand the payment of the Anytime Single fare. For York to Glasgow that's £73.

Intentional non-payment of a fare is a criminal offence punishable with a large fine or imprisonment.

anewman

This is to stop the idiots who run to the ticket machines to buy a young persons railcard ticket, who in fact do not have such a card. Just like those who always try it on on the bus asking for kids fare when they're 17 years old.

As it's only £17.50 I'd pay it and be more careful to carry the card in future.

Conor_3

Neil_B wrote: »

Is she? Quite possibly but do you know that as a fact?

Yes. It's in the terms and conditions, clearly stated.

very strange the negativity and repeated assumptions of guilt on this site in general. Money saving? How do you expect to save money if you roll over at the slightest hint of authority - without knowing if it has any basis?

Bad advice costs you more in the long run. Perhaps you'd prefer it if we told everyone what they wanted to hear? "No problem OP, you're perfectly in the right". And they believe that. Then end up in court for whatever offence with a larger fine plus costs when they could've paid a £20 reduced penalty. Now how is that money saving?

silkyuk9

TimothyEBaldwin wrote: »

The National Conditions of Carriage and and the Railcard conditions are quite clear, she did not have a valid ticket.

Since she started her journey at a station were tickets could be brought, and National Express East Coast do not have a penalty fare scheme, and do not advertise the sale of tickets on-board their trains, they can demand the payment of the Anytime Single fare. For York to Glasgow that's £73.

Intentional non-payment of a fare is a criminal offence punishable with a large fine or imprisonment.

Actually she did have a valid ticket, she does have a rail card but on this occasion she misplaced the railcard, but later found it, as she forgot to put it in her purse when she travelled.

Also she purchased her ticket from a station prior on which she produced her railcard as proof.

I understand where you all are coming from, regarding her not producing her rail card on inspection, and just showing her ticket. At the end of the day we are only human, we tend to forget things now and again.

Has anyone ever taken an item of clothing back to a shop for a refund but lost the receipt, its a genuine human error!!

The point i do not like is, my daughter has a valid rail card, this can be DETECTED through the rail company, they DO know she has a valid rail card as they sent the letter to our address, so through computer technology they are aware that she does have a rail card.

Would it have been easier for the rail inspector to have thrown my daughter off the the train somewhere between York and Glasgow, would that have been ethical or logical or correct. In this day and age when we are having lots of media publicity on childrens wealthfare isn't it just as easy to say,............

'ok you have lost or misplaced your railcard, can you prove who you are so we can check your details in the computer, but please be aware if you do not pocess a valid railcard you may face prosicution'

isnt that the way things should be.

Id love to say this in court but, i DARE not go that far because would a court be in my daughters favour and say.....

'yes my dear, you are only human and misplaced your railcard, but you have proven that you infact do own a valid card and this was verified by the rail company'

Unfortunatly i will never know.

Neil_B

Conor wrote: »

Yes. It's in the terms and conditions, clearly stated.

Bad advice costs you more in the long run. Perhaps you'd prefer it if we told everyone what they wanted to hear? "No problem OP, you're perfectly in the right". And they believe that. Then end up in court for whatever offence with a larger fine plus costs when they could've paid a £20 reduced penalty. Now how is that money saving?

I agree and no i would never advise anyone in that way. For 'parking' for instance, my area, i would rarely recommend anyone challenge a 'criminal' ticket to the point of appearing in front of a magistrate. Too risky unless you have a really very strong case.

I was just rather bemused that people posted info without backing it up - and that there does seem a rather negative aspect of acceptance here?

At the end of the day, an innocent person made an honest mistake and will suffer for the sake that we catch out the real transgressors most of the time. In my book, not the world i want to see.
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Neil_B

TimothyEBaldwin wrote: »

Intentional non-payment of a fare is a criminal offence punishable with a large fine or imprisonment.

- and quite rightly! So how does it apply here?