CSA - Ex Making A Claim Against Me Now

Deepest_Blue_2

Hi,

I hope that someone can help me with some advice on this matter.

For over four years, I have been paying my ex partner child maintenance through an amicable agreement outside of the CSA, I offered her a generous amount in monthly payments (arguably maybe even more than I should be as I calculated 25% of my net pay which is what I have been giving her) for the last 4 years in which has been directly paid into her bank account via standing order which appears as "child maintenance payments to ...." on my bank statements since payments begun 4 years ago.

During that time, she has remarried and has had a further two children. Unfortunately, we haven't ever really been on speaking terms so she's more than likely never thought about approaching me about discussing the finances.

My ex partner notified me back in June that she started a claim through the CSA against me, even though she had been happy with the payments prior to this,I suspect she is more than likely struggling financially as her new partner only works part time and she has never worked in her life.

It is now December and I have not heard a thing from the CSA even though I have continually carried on paying her as normal via Standing Order of the same amount as always. When she first notified me about this back in June, she said she couldn't care if I stopped payments to her in which I was very tempted to, however, after seeking advice from the CAB, the suggested I just carried on the same as always, in which as mentioned I have been doing.

I guess my questions are as follows:

1. If she has put in a claim from June, why have they not contacted me yet?

2. Will the CSA backdate payments from the time she put the claim in or when they finally decide to contact me? My biggest concern here being that say if they got hold of me now that the payments I was paying her since June were wasted? I was advised by the CAB to continue them so I have done, so therefore I am hoping that any back payments are covered, of if anything, I would be advanced if I overpaid?

3. As I have always paid by standing order and it appears on my statement, she would have had to declare it, so there's no getting away from it, so I am hoping that the CSA would have asked her for her bank statements to show I have been paying?

4. Do you think that one of the reasons why the CSA have not got in touch would be because I have been paying (and a fair amount at that) so therefore this case isn't so urgent? Or are all cases treated the same? It just seems to me that the case against me is quite unfair really and I would really be pleased if the CSA would actually see how reasonable I have been even if it took 4 years worth of bank statements to prove it!

5. My salary is divided into parts, such as shift allowance and the occasional bonus, so my salary isn't always the same each month, only my basic pay is guaranteed. This part concerns me greatly as wouldn't want to see them take an inaccurate amount based on money I don't actually always earn.

Thanks in advance for any advice on this.

Sensemaya

Deepest_Blue wrote: »

Hi,

I hope that someone can help me with some advice on this matter.

For over four years, I have been paying my ex partner child maintenance through an amicable agreement outside of the CSA, I offered her a generous amount in monthly payments (arguably maybe even more than I should be as I calculated 25% of my net pay which is what I have been giving her) for the last 4 years in which has been directly paid into her bank account via standing order which appears as "child maintenance payments to ...." on my bank statements since payments begun 4 years ago. Good- you have evidence of payments.

During that time, she has remarried and has had a further two children. Unfortunately, we haven't ever really been on speaking terms so she's more than likely never thought about approaching me about discussing the finances. Do you see your children.

My ex partner notified me back in June that she started a claim through the CSA against me, even though she had been happy with the payments prior to this,I suspect she is more than likely struggling financially as her new partner only works part time and she has never worked in her life. Could be in receipt of WTC/CTC so maintenance will go to them. However it would be interesting to know whether she has even been on IS. I would contact the CSA...see the website 'saynoto0870' to get geographical phone number for CSA.See if a claim has been made.

It is now December and I have not heard a thing from the CSA even though I have continually carried on paying her as normal via Standing Order of the same amount as always. When she first notified me about this back in June, she said she couldn't care if I stopped payments to her in which I was very tempted to, however, after seeking advice from the CAB, the suggested I just carried on the same as always, in which as mentioned I have been doing.

I guess my questions are as follows:

1. If she has put in a claim from June, why have they not contacted me yet? Because they are slow incompetent to*sspots.

2. Will the CSA backdate payments from the time she put the claim in or when they finally decide to contact me? Should be when they contact you. My biggest concern here being that say if they got hold of me now that the payments I was paying her since June were wasted? I was advised by the CAB to continue them so I have done, so therefore I am hoping that any back payments are covered, of if anything, I would be advanced if I overpaid? As payments state for child support purpose you should be OK, but I would still contact MP because you never know with the CSA.

3. As I have always paid by standing order and it appears on my statement, she would have had to declare it, so there's no getting away from it, so I am hoping that the CSA would have asked her for her bank statements to show I have been paying? In theory they should.

4. Do you think that one of the reasons why the CSA have not got in touch would be because I have been paying (and a fair amount at that) so therefore this case isn't so urgent? No. Or are all cases treated the same? It just seems to me that the case against me is quite unfair really and I would really be pleased if the CSA would actually see how reasonable I have been even if it took 4 years worth of bank statements to prove it! Reason does not exist in the CSA's eyes.

5. My salary is divided into parts, such as shift allowance and the occasional bonus, so my salary isn't always the same each month, only my basic pay is guaranteed. This part concerns me greatly as wouldn't want to see them take an inaccurate amount based on money I don't actually always earn. They work on last 3 wage slips.

Thanks in advance for any advice on this.

What you need to do is contact the CSA and see whether a case has been opened. if you get no joy contact your MP. See what happens and then come back to us.

All I seem to do nowadays is advise people - both PWC and NRP- to contact their MP. Things are normally resolved(!) quicker ie you get a proper answer to queries, complaints and so forth, account breakdowns ( a must ) requests are actually prepared and not ignored and there is a paper trail of all correspondence.

The MP's assistant is your best friend because they do the graft work. They also have access to the Parliamentary hotline.

Let's see if she has put in a claim. If she has, she is a very stupid, greedy woman.

Deepest_Blue_2

Hi Sensemaya and thank you very much for your reply.

I am not sure if she has or hasn't contacted the CSA, however, I became suspicious of this when I recently received a letter from them advising me that my bank payments to the CSA will change and will say something different? I don't even pay them at all, infact, they have never got hold of me at all, however, it's more than likely that they are still waiting to process her claim but just taking ages about it?

I have thought about contacting the CAB or any other representative again but at this point I am not sure what that would achieve as the CSA hasn't approached me (yet) so I don't want to open a can of worms so to speak.

Surely the CSA cannot be that unreasonable if I have evidence of payments to my ex? I heard a lot about these people changing things around to improve it so that it's fairer. I don't think the CSA can be as unreasonable as my ex wife as she isn't a nice person, and indeed, she is very greedy as you suggest.

Yes, I do see my children, on average about once a week or sometimes even twice a week or sometimes not at all in a week this is mainly due to my shift working and when time allows.

So, what would happen if I stopped payments now, say place the payments in a seperate bank account? Won't these be classed as backpayments? As you say, the CSA hasn't got hold of me so then if they take backdates from the time they do get hold of me then these payments that I am giving her now seems like a waste? Maybe she's getting paid twice, once from me and the CSA as well? Surely she would get into serious trouble for not declaring anything?

I don't want to stop any payments but I just don't want to get shafted at all. There has to be a fairer way to deal with this and the CSA has to be reasonable, if the are not then surely they can be reported and investigated too? Seems unfair to me if the can't be reported.

Thanks for reading.

PS, I am becoming very very worried about all this

kelloggs36

The CSA can only ask for payment from the time they either make contact with you by phone or from the time they send a letter to you. If you want to know you will have to phone them to see if they have sent a letter to you which may not have arrived. If there is nothing on their system, then there is no live case as yet. If they do have a case, then you should put the money aside and wait for them to ask you to pay them because they will still ask the PWC for verification that the money was for child support - just because you said it was doesn't mean that the PWC will agree. Usually I advise anybody making direct payments to get signed receipts from the PWC to confirm that they have had the money so it can't be disputed later.

On the face of it, there appears to be no reason why the CSA would be able to backdate as they have not contacted you yet, but there is nothing stopping you from calling them and asking them to check their system

dimbo61

If your overtime and any bonuses are not guarenteed then stop working overtime.
The CSA will take into account all your income and will want your last 3 months or 5 weekly wage statements.
So unless you work overtime every month you could be paying too much.
Its 15% for 1 child,20% for 2 childrens and 25% for 3 or more kids
Good Luck

Deepest_Blue_2

So in other words, even paying her the money directly into her bank account with the title "Child Maintenance" will still not be enough to prove that? I find that a little alarming! I have paid the money to her and it's show on our statements, how she chooses to spend it is surely down to her? And surely she'd be the one getting in trouble if she had been claiming other monies and not declaring that I have been paying her all this time? So what your saying or what could be happening would be that she'd be getting paid twice? So then, how could she have survived all this time if she didn't declare that I was paying her? She would have had to tell someone because she has been claiming Child Tax Credits or Income Support as she's never worked before, I am sure there's a section that says "tell us about any other income you are getting", if she didn't declare it then at this point and then I prove that I was paying her by sending them my bank statements, she'd be in trouble, surely!?

I am still getting conflicting versions of how the CSA work from the many different people who have dealt with them, some people are saying that they back date it from when she first made the claim and then others say that they back date it to when they actually get hold of me. Either way, it doesn't bother me because I have paid her and any back dated money I'd expect it to be covered because my bank statements say payments given to her for the reason of child maintenance, so any decent human being in their right mind can see that, especially since it's written in black ink on my bank statement!

I know people have suggest I contact them, but I would only do that if I knew for certain that I wouldn't get shafted in the process, after all, the impression i've been given so far of the CSA is that I should run 100 miles away from them unless I really absolutely have to deal with them. As far as I am concerned, I have been very amicable and very forthcoming in paying money to her and I find it distressing that the CSA does not look into this to see that she has indeed been getting this money for a number of years - nothing had changed or stopped, she just thought one day that she could do with more money and that's just wrong in my eyes. There has to be some kind of protection for those who have been very reasonable towards their ex partners and never left them in trouble, I have always paid since day 1 of our seperation then subsequently divorce.

I am really stuck on what to do now.

I would be worried now that if I change anything I have been doing, that it could work against me? For example if I stopped paying her the standing order, would the CSA look at that as a bad move? I was told by the Citizens not to stop anything so I haven't done.

If they do have a case, then you should put the money aside and wait for them to ask you to pay them because they will still ask the PWC for verification that the money was for child support - just because you said it was doesn't mean that the PWC will agree.

Surely, the fact that my bank statement says that it's paying her a standing order with the title of child maintenance is proof enough? I still can't believe that wouldn't be proof enough, even if she denies it verbally to them, if I can prove it via my bank statements and then give them her bank account details that I have been using to pay it, then that's end of case surely?

Usually I advise anybody making direct payments to get signed receipts from the PWC to confirm that they have had the money so it can't be disputed later.

Unfortunately, this can only work if the two parties are amicable, my ex isn't a reasonable person so that was never going to happen.

The only contact I've had from the CSA is a strange letter from them advising that any payments from now on would look different on the bank statement because of changes to their department name, no longer run by the DWP? I didn't understand why I got this letter at all in the first place if they have never got hold of be before. Seems very odd indeed.

*note*

Oh, I forgot to mention, I have kept every single email from her that she's ever sent, and in amongst all these she does mention on numerous occasions and makes references to the voluntary payments that I have been paying her, in fact, one of the last emails she sent me she specifically said "I don't care if you stop the payments I am still going to the CSA" or words to that effect.

Deepest_Blue_2

Oh, just to add, I found this link, it seems like it's all changing soon or has changed already? Perhaps why they have not got in touch with me yet?

I am still unsure if this would make things a little fairer seeing that they have scrapped the fact that it's 25% of net pay for 3 or more children. I've not really studied this properly so I don't know if it's going to help/protect those who have been willing to pay.

http://www.familylawweek.co.uk/site.aspx?i=ed24549

Sensemaya

Deepest Blue

Thank you for the link. Daviid Burrows - another solicitor that deals with CSA cases and one I didn't mention in the sticky thread. It might help people if you put the link in the sticky thread.

I understand at how alarmed you feel.

You have got to be on CS2 if a claim has been put in my her and the CSA sending you this letter rings alarm bells with me.They have got your details, because you have received that letter.

You have to bite the bullet and contact them. Please phone up the MP's assistant, explain the circumstances and ask them to phone the CSA via the Parliamentary hotline. It is always the best way because you are leaving a trail of evidence and the matter will be resolved quicker. You will also be dealing with CSA staff way higher than a case officer and these staff know their stuff better than a CO.

We have two separate issues here. The first being has a case been opened and secondly, is/was she in receipt of IS at the time? So let's deal with the first issue now.
Forget about C-Mec ( C-Mess) for the moment.

I'm worried that if you stop the payments she might stop you seeing the kids. So I'm inclined to say keep paying and send all your evidence off to the MP.

Please keep us updated.

chall1964

Deepest_Blue wrote: »

So in other words, even paying her the money directly into her bank account with the title "Child Maintenance" will still not be enough to prove that?

~ Yes that would be enough!

Anybody paying the CSA via Standing Order should have payments marked 'Child support & their NI number'.

Deepest_Blue_2

Hi, thanks again for all the responses.

I just hope that those Bank Statements will be my saviour as they quite clearly say where the money is going and what they are for. I also have emails from her saying so. I've never had her NI number and I am not sure if she would have given it to me anyway so I am not sure if that would make a difference or not. I could try and guess it (from past paperwork) but I wouldn't want to quote something incorrect on something as serious as this.

That letter I recently received says something like this:

"Changes To The CSA" and it starts off by saying "The Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission is the new organisation responsible for child maintenance which took over the running of the CSA from 1st November 2008. This means that the CSA is no loner part of the DWP. At the moment your direct debit payment appears on your bank statement as DSS CSA, with effect from 27th Octoer it will appear as "CSA". The good news is that you need take no action to continue receiving the benefits of Direct Debit. There is no need for you to complete a new Direct Debit Instruction as the details of the change will have been supplied to your bank/building society who may also notify you independently".

It worries me because I have not given any details of mine to them whatsoever and they have never got in touch with me either about it, so I am still waiting. Also something to note that I didn't have a a case or ref number in regards to any case so does that mean I don't have a case set up yet? Hopefully that means that the back dated payments would still only apply if/when they get hold of me ? This seems like a standard letter that's sent to everybody on file regardless of their situation.

When it was suggested that would she be claiming IS at the time, what difference would that be to me? I thought that whatever she claims would be down to her responsibility if she's overclaimed when she wasn't supposed to. As for as I know, I think she has declared to them (or someone in benefits) that I was paying her, I think it was the housing benefit she told? I am not entirely sure, but again I have emails somewhere when she said what she was using the money I was giving her for.

Dare I say it? If I knew for certain that things would turn out fair, then I wouldn't worry so much, for example, any backdated payments would be covered by the proof I already have of paying her and also the final figure is "close" or better still "less" than what I am giving her because, as I said, I am already giving her a very generous payment. I cannot afford to pay out anymore due to my own commitments, one being a loan I have for trying to sort all this mess out in the past from the divorce.

Thanks to everybody for showing an interest in my situation.
Take Care

kelloggs36

Chall that is not the best advice because in some cases it is NOT enough just to state on a bank statement that the money is child maintenance. The PWC still has to agree that that was the case and if she doesn't then they won't allow it. they will ask questons, but many a PWC has claimed that the NRP owed them money and that is what the payments were for. The PWC has no bearing on what the NRP puts on a standing order and so it is not enough for the NRP just to claim that the money paid is for child maintenance. To safeguard oneself you need receipts from the PWC agreeing that the money paid was for maintenance and for the period covered - this is more protection for the NRP.

To the OP I really think you are worrying unnecessarily at the moment - you have no evidence that the CSA have been in contact or tried to so as far as it seems there are no arrears and none building up. The only way to know is to ask them if there is a case outstanding.

If she was claiming IS all along, then you could actually find yourself with large arrears if the CSA claim to have sent you out a MEF. THis is because up until October, it was a legal requirement for any IS single parent to make a claim via the CSA to offset their benefits. NOw, she could have lied and said that she didn't know who the father was so they never set up the case - no arrears owed. However, if she lied and took the money and didn't declare it, then she could end up in big trouble as she was only entitled to keep the first £10 per week if on CS2 - if on CS1 then she would have had penny for penny deducted from her benefits. If she declared it then fine, but if not, she is hardly going to admit now that she has had the money and end up with a huge overpayment of income support is she? You do need to establish for your own piece of mind what the situation actually is - don't second guess, get the facts and then make decisions from there.