Questions on my Hunter Herald 8 Multifuel Stove

carlwh

Regarding the original question about brown gunk, my experience with a hunter herald 14 is this. The drier the wood, the less brown gunk you get, and the easier it is to clean off any gunk you do get. Fresh wood = lotsa gunk, difficult to remove; aged/dry wood = much less gunk, easy to remove. I have learned, over the last 3 years, to use as old a wood as possible, but even then, about every 5 weeks, I have to clean the glass. However it's a simple clean with a dish scrubber (the things you buy in any supermarket) and tepid water. When I was using "wet" wood, it was every 3 days, and I had to use hob cleaner to clean the glass.

If i can beg your indulgence, here are the lessons I've learned over the last three years ...
1) you will use lots of wood, so a good enquiring/begging attitude works wonders all year round - I've been promised 40 cypresses and complete oak & elm trees; it's easy provided there's little local competition, and you don't mind going to strangers and asking for their cast-off wood
2) in my case I also had to buy a chain saw - and learn how to use it - and safety equipment, and a wood splitter; total cost just under £300
3) total installation/learning costs £1800 (purchase, installation, VAT, chainsaw, log-splitter, safety equipment)
4) I used a sales office here in Kent, and the sales staff were excellent, they heped me question, and confirm, my decision on which wood burner to install
5) their installation staff were awful; always trying to find a reason to increase the installation cost - in spite of the fact they'd done the initial site survey to give me a fixed price. Eventually i did have to say, "do the agreed work, at the agreed price, or I'll get another installer to do the work, and charge you the difference - as is my right"
6) during the heating season here, mid-October to end-April, I can show about 1300 litres oil saving (no gas, we have oil) per year, so saving about £600 p.a. (at current prices). Payback is 3 years for the cash outlay. Bunce after that (if the wood is close to free).
7) Burner heats 15m X 10 m ground floor, and 10 m X 6 m on second storey, due to hot air circulation - overheats in my opinion, wife and daughters are very happy, much warmer than the oil-fired hot-water radiators
8) Plusses: eventual cost savings, less dependence on imported oil, warmer house - at least the part the hot air reaches. If I did get a kick from reduced CO2 net emissions, that would count too. I've become proficient in chain saws and log-splitters. All the extra people I've met while finding all the wood I need - it's a great way to announce yourself to the local community (I'm normally shy).
7) Minusses: All the extra work to get, cut, split the wood - but then I don't need to pay for an exercise regime, 'cos i'm already getting it - I've lost over 10 kg, and I'm fitter, BP has gone down 5 points, and happier talking to strangers. Picking the wood, and firing the burner is a lot more effort than just setting a timer & thermostat on an oil-burner.
8) Major minus: I haven't found a way of making this burner last overnight - a full load of wood only last 4 hours max. So we still need oil heating in the morning. Which limits the savings to what I've indicated. If you know a way to extend the burn/smoulder time to 8 hours, I'd love to hear from you.

Primeacres

Hi guys,

I have read with interest your posts about the Herald 8 and wood burners or multifuel burners in general.

I too have a Herald 8, problem is it smokes the house out as soon as I open the doors. !!!!

Been using this system now for a year in 2 weeks time. From day one the smoke that has bellowed out, has FORCED ALL windows open to get the smoke clear.

I am used to wood burners but do not claim to be an expert. Clean them out, scrape them , take all the internals out and brush them down each time to have a clean furnace but stilll no changes in the smoke output, on still days or very windy days the problem is worsened.

Have even sat infront of a few having a chill with the wife with a coffee or a wine as all that came out of the doors was heat, BUT NOT WITH THIS ONE.

As soon as the doors are open with coal or wood inside I get smoke or fumes pouring out.

Have cleaned the flue myself at least 10 times in a year, have had the installers out to check the flue 3 times and yet we still get the smoke filled room REGARDLESS of fuel type, heat and burning temperature AND BELIEVE ME THIS BURNER GIVES OFF SOME HEAT.

Problem is I have 9 rooms to heat with this unit and when it works and the doors are shut it does the job very well indeed and keeps the house very warm. Apparantly the Herald 8 can cater for 12 rads and I belive it can, so much so I call it my Rolls Royce of wood burners as it is that good for heat output, BUT it is killing me to work with it no matter what I do.

In my eyes only superman can open the doors and top this fire up quickly enough without filling the room with smoke and that is even instantly after brushing the flue bottom to top, after going to ash or cinders or full flame, it makes no difference in my eyes, we have even tried cleaning the flue (leanly cleaned cowell included) from cowell to burning unit in the house, the installers have done the same and yet the same thing still happens. SMOKE, SMOKE AND MORE SMOKE OR FUMES.

Personally I think there is a design flaw with this unit and the obvious one is the angle of the heat bricks, they are WAY TOO STEEP. I have never seen so much come out of a woodburner and scarily , so quickly. Personally I think this unit is a health hazzard.

I have never seen so much smoke or fume come out of a woodburner in my life.

Any comments on this would be GREATLY appreciated as I am seriously looking at contacting a health authority as I really do not know what to do before this thing kills us and we aren't even in winter yet.

I am guessing the Herald 8 was made in china or the installers really are blagging me that all is clear up the pipe.

Cheers
Mark

welda

Sorry to hear about all the problems you are having, a few will pop along with hopefully a cure to your stove ills, all I can think of is, before opening door to refill, open bottom air vent, hopefully blast smoke from combustion chamber up the chimney, instead of spilling out into room???

:beer:

A._Badger

As you can see from the above posts, there's nothing wrong with the Herald 8, other people are using them quite happily (as I am my 14 - effectively the same stove scaled-up). The problem sounds, to me, like one of installation/drafting - particularly as you mention it's worse on a still day. That points to a possible chimney issue.

Did you install it yourself? If not, can you get the original installers back? Are the people who have been round to look at it good firms? There's any number of 'experts' cashing-in on this market now

Finally, have you called in a reliable sweep? In my experience of fires and stoves, it has usually been an experienced sweep who has talked the most sense and, particularly as it sounds like you have drafting issue, a sweep should be able to find out what's going wrong here.

One thing is for certain, you should definitely not be getting smoke in the room the way you say you are. Good luck.

w50nky

Couple of quick questions.

You say you have swept the flue but is it lined and how tall is it?
What cowl do you have fitted?
Does it still smoke if you open a window prior to opening the stove door?

A cold flue will not draw to well and if it is not lined and insulated may cause problems. Trees or other buildings nearby can cause problems too.

As A Badger says a good sweep should be able to advise on your chimney and advise on cures too.

Primeacres

Hi Guys,

I can't thankyou enough for the fast response to my post.

It really is a big problem.

I didn't install the system myself, wish I had though.
I do everything by the book as far as I can as I am concerned and when you are being smoked out I can assure you that the vents are used accordingly and even the door being opened very carefully and just ajar helps get the smoke out and up the chimney but not enough, wood seasoning is not a problem that's for sure.

It makes me feel comfortable that refering back to the installers may be a good idea as I have always felt deep down that the flue and chimney could be the cause even though it has been swept multiple times but it really does get the mind wondering when nothing works to fix the problem and I am absolutely certain I am not misusing the woodburner.

I think what I was after was a response to the smoke output on this system, the China joke was half hearted but worth a shot as you never know nowadays and as a conciencious 'grafter' myself, I find it difficult to comprehend that people of my own 'calibre' would not try to fix something of this nature that they installed themselves. As mentioned I am no expert but have a damn good idea of my own abilities and common sense says something really isn't right what is happenning here , so ..... I will get back to you and let you know the outcome as it obviously really needs serious addressing.

Thanks again and will be back to let you know what the cause is.
Cheers
Mark

crphillips

No appliance should spill smoke into the room with the doors open. If it is then there is an issue with draw which is either due to a blocked or leaking flue, lack of ventilation in the room or incorrectly installed baffle plate.

Get the installers back.

If it's an old house it would be wise to re-line the flue.

Primeacres

Yep, you guessed right it is an old house, we're listed infact grade 2, Ventilation is inline with procedures and it works with the woodburner no problem. Will let you know the outcome. This is a serious post by the way, no test or anything, I am absolutely serious about this.

Primeacres

w50nky wrote: »

Couple of quick questions.

You say you have swept the flue but is it lined and how tall is it?
What cowl do you have fitted?
Does it still smoke if you open a window prior to opening the stove door?

A cold flue will not draw to well and if it is not lined and insulated may cause problems. Trees or other buildings nearby can cause problems too.

As A Badger says a good sweep should be able to advise on your chimney and advise on cures too.

Sorry, didn't answer your questions, yes we do have trees but these are way below roof level, I always heat the fire with vents open to get the fire going first, 6 inch lining althrough that has gun barrel style channel to assist cleaning, I am also outside a lot and like air in the house to stop it getting stuffy especially when the fire is on, the vent draws cold air in directly infront of the fire, always have a window open downstairs fire side anyway unless settling down for the night, we have chucks etc and so I am in and out of the house a lot, we work from home aswell so not often we forget stuff really and doors always openiong and closing to my wifes dislike with cold drafts etc, 1 hour or 7 days a week burning makes no difference, the outpour of smoke or fumes that is the problem is rediculous. We did book a sweep, we live in a sweepers area but he never turned up , neither did the coal man, so I have always done the jobs myself.
The cowell is a metal vented type with a conical metal roof, we had it removed last year and I cleaned it myself, it's still see through even now when I go out into the garden to take a look, but I am sure it will need to be taken down and brushed again by January, the flue takes 20 feet of brush pole, mine are 18 feet, six in all plus my arm up the flue is enough length to save knocking the Simon Cowell off the chimney stack.

jonny_turner_99

Primeacres wrote: »

Sorry, didn't answer your questions, yes we do have trees but these are way below roof level, I always heat the fire with vents open to get the fire going first, 6 inch lining althrough that has gun barrel style channel to assist cleaning, I am also outside a lot and like air in the house to stop it getting stuffy especially when the fire is on, the vent draws cold air in directly infront of the fire, always have a window open downstairs fire side anyway unless settling down for the night, we have chucks etc and so I am in and out of the house a lot, we work from home aswell so not often we forget stuff really and doors always openiong and closing to my wifes dislike with cold drafts etc, 1 hour or 7 days a week burning makes no difference, the outpour of smoke or fumes that is the problem is rediculous. We did book a sweep, we live in a sweepers area but he never turned up , neither did the coal man, so I have always done the jobs myself.
The cowell is a metal vented type with a conical metal roof, we had it removed last year and I cleaned it myself, it's still see through even now when I go out into the garden to take a look, but I am sure it will need to be taken down and brushed again by January, the flue takes 20 feet of brush pole, mine are 18 feet, six in all plus my arm up the flue is enough length to save knocking the Simon Cowell off the chimney stack.

I can't see any mention of it but there are quite a few posts. Do you have an air brick installed in the room? Every stove over 5kw needs an air brick in order to allow a draught to pass through the room. For every 1kW over 5kW your stove is, you need one with an area of 550mm2. Therefore if you have an 8kW stove you require an air brick that has an area of 1,650mm2. Hope this helps.