scotland wide travel - free for over 60's and disabled

lilac_lady

To grex9101 -
You may think that you're articulate but a lesson in basic English would help with your posts. "their and there" for example. I don't want to descend into your frame of mind so I hope you CAN work till you drop because "best laid plans " etc. Many of the OAPs today did not receive the high wages of the younger generation and had difficulty making ends meet never mind saving for old age. I presume you'll not be claining a pension from the state when you retire as that will go against YOUR principles?

grex9101

lilac_lady wrote:

To grex9101 -
You may think that you're articulate but a lesson in basic English would help with your posts. "their and there" for example. I don't want to descend into your frame of mind so I hope you CAN work till you drop because "best laid plans " etc. Many of the OAPs today did not receive the high wages of the younger generation and had difficulty making ends meet never mind saving for old age. I presume you'll not be claining a pension from the state when you retire as that will go against YOUR principles?

I think you'll find that my "their" was gramatically correct.... I'm glad to see that you find it necessary to clutch at straws in face of the undeniable truth. (typos don't count my dear, unless you are THAT petty...)

As for state pensions, the only way I'll actually get one is if the bar is raised to a retiring age of 75. People are living far too long to make anything else a viable option. Plus the fact that the government see fit to pay billions in benefits to junkie scum, single mothers and folk that have a "disability" (i.e. workophobia-the fear of getting a job and having to work for a living. Don't confuse this with genuine disabled people who cannot work).

I think one of the main reasons for this paradigm shift is the fact that women were not expected to work in those days, whereas now they feel they have to. Still, I believe that it really was a case of expecting the government to provide for them in their retirement with nary a thought as to providing for their own old age.

I still stand by my original comments. Those without foresight to provide for themselves deserve all they get.

I will not be one of them.

weatherwax_2

Grex9101 re

Those without foresight to provide for themselves deserve all they get.

I will not be one of them.

It's just as well because, with an outlook like yours, nobody would give a damn about helping you out (at least I hope they would'nt but they probably would because there are lots of people out there who care about those worse off than themselves).

Ever think about getting a job in one of those nursing homes we hear so much about? You know, the ones where old people are consistently abused? You could then indulge in physical abuse as well as verbal abuse. Plus, as you've already said

I HAVE provisioned for my old age, both with a pension plan, and my investments.

sooooo, you could treat your new job (a part-time one, natch, as you're so well provided for) as a little hobby. Think of the perks. All those nasty, smelly, helpless old 'fogies' at your mercy. Ooooh, I bet you've come over all unnecessary at the thought of that scenario. :rolleyes2

Now just calm down and have a few sips of your tipple of choice (bile, I assume). :cool:

margaretclare

grex9101 wrote:

I think one of the main reasons for this paradigm shift is the fact that women were not expected to work in those days, whereas now they feel they have to. Still, I believe that it really was a case of expecting the government to provide for them in their retirement with nary a thought as to providing for their own old age.

Can I speak, please? I lived through the time when there was what you're pleased to call a 'paradigm shift'. Being in the Women's Movement gave me a particular perspective.

Once we got married we were expected to depend on husband for everything, including forward planning and saving for eventualities in later life like old age. I never liked that idea. I've always been independent and preferred to pay my own way. I've worked with many, many women who did need the money, but because of the culture of the time their earnings weren't treated seriously, not like those of the 'male breadwinner'. Their income was treated as 'pin-money' (whatever that meant) even when it was needed for e.g. the children's shoes!

Because whatever women earned wasn't taken seriously, they were discouraged from putting any of it towards their own future. Many women now who're retiring into poverty say they 'didn't know' that they could continue paying full NI contributions after marriage (this stopped in 1978 but women paying the smaller contribution were allowed to continue). The culture of the time was so strong that they really thought they were compelled to pay the smaller contribution. And of course, if you're a young bride or a young mum, do you ever imagine that you'll get old and need income in your own right?

I've been told that I'm one of 17% of retired women who gets full SRP from my own contributions. 17% only!!! In addition, I was laughed at many times by female colleagues in the NHS for paying into the NHS pension scheme. They kept their hours just below full-time so they didn't have to belong to it. They did assume that the male contributions would be sufficient for their future as well, either that or they were concerned so much with immediate living and not with the future.

Women did work, right through the decades since WWII. Don't forget, there was a tremendous labour shortage in the 1950s. It was so easy to get a job! This was the reason why Asians were invited to come here to work in north of England textiles....another can of worms that I won't attempt to open!

I always liked my own income, my independence, and I still do like it. DH and I both receive our pensions into our own bank accounts. I could have got SRP from my first husband's contributions, then when I remarried I'd have had to get 60% of my second husband's SRP. We'd have been a lot worse off, but more importantly, I hate to feel dependent on any man, so I'm glad of those decisions I made decades ago.

Margaret Clare

al_yrpal

grex9101 wrote:

Agreed, Scotland actually subsidises the rest of the UK.

I'm all for nationalism and that Andy Stuart guy because I'm fed up with subsidising Celtic scroungers. A bus pass is immaterial to me because I travel almost everywhere in my car, like most southerners, though I do think that poorer English pensioners get a raw deal compared with the nation we continue to subsidise North of the border. How anyone can have any pride in living somewhere which is a tax drain on everyone else because it happens to have some oil off its coasts beggars belief. Perhaps its just part of the perpetual scrounger mentality? A relation who worked in public service up there recently moved south. He got a nasty shock - all the council meetings in Scotland were held during the day, whereas in the hard working south they are held in the evening, because most southern councilliors work!

Judging by Grey's insulting comments he's transformed himself into a Super Victor Meldrew long before his time, turning him into exactly what he despises - that's justice!

System

I found this interesting. Today, my wife (reg.disabled) and myself (over 60) paid hopefully for the last time, £3.50 each to travel 10 miles. On boarding the bus, every double seat was occupied with one person and the seat by their side, was cluttered with their belongings. The two double seats for elderly/disabled, were occupied by 20 somethings. To make a point, instead of splitting, we stood momentarily untill someone had the grace to allow us to sit together.

I wonder, when on April 1st, we travel either free or £1 if it is out of our area, will they think, "they haven't paid full fare, let'em stand".

lilac_lady

When I (mis)read your last post (grex9101) you wrote "pretty" - it was "petty". Ho hum. Just when I thought you were mellowing....

grex9101

weatherwax wrote:

Grex9101 re

It's just as well because, with an outlook like yours, nobody would give a damn about helping you out (at least I hope they would'nt but they probably would because there are lots of people out there who care about those worse off than themselves).

Ever think about getting a job in one of those nursing homes we hear so much about? You know, the ones where old people are consistently abused? You could then indulge in physical abuse as well as verbal abuse. Plus, as you've already said

sooooo, you could treat your new job (a part-time one, natch, as you're so well provided for) as a little hobby. Think of the perks. All those nasty, smelly, helpless old 'fogies' at your mercy. Ooooh, I bet you've come over all unnecessary at the thought of that scenario. :rolleyes2

Now just calm down and have a few sips of your tipple of choice (bile, I assume). :cool:

Now now, no need to be so nasty. Perhaps you don't like my comments, but you shouldn't get so personal.

As for working in a nursing home, I'm not qualified for that particular vocation-unless you think that's a good thing?

Still, you are right-I wouldn't like looking after the "fogies" as I believe that's what nurses train for-they WANT to!

And I take exception at being accused of abuse-I would never do such a thing.

My intention was never to abuse, rather to point out the abuse that some older people seem to feel it is necessary to dish out to the population who happen to be supporting them.

Perhaps the next time one of them rams me with their trolley, holds me up in a queue or lets a door go in my face, I will remind them of exactly who is supporting who.

And don't give me the war crap. I really have had enough of it.

margaretclare wrote:

Can I speak, please? I lived through the time when there was what you're pleased to call a 'paradigm shift'. Being in the Women's Movement gave me a particular perspective.

Once we got married we were expected to depend on husband for everything, including forward planning and saving for eventualities in later life like old age. I never liked that idea. I've always been independent and preferred to pay my own way. I've worked with many, many women who did need the money, but because of the culture of the time their earnings weren't treated seriously, not like those of the 'male breadwinner'. Their income was treated as 'pin-money' (whatever that meant) even when it was needed for e.g. the children's shoes!

Because whatever women earned wasn't taken seriously, they were discouraged from putting any of it towards their own future. Many women now who're retiring into poverty say they 'didn't know' that they could continue paying full NI contributions after marriage (this stopped in 1978 but women paying the smaller contribution were allowed to continue). The culture of the time was so strong that they really thought they were compelled to pay the smaller contribution. And of course, if you're a young bride or a young mum, do you ever imagine that you'll get old and need income in your own right?

I've been told that I'm one of 17% of retired women who gets full SRP from my own contributions. 17% only!!! In addition, I was laughed at many times by female colleagues in the NHS for paying into the NHS pension scheme. They kept their hours just below full-time so they didn't have to belong to it. They did assume that the male contributions would be sufficient for their future as well, either that or they were concerned so much with immediate living and not with the future.

Women did work, right through the decades since WWII. Don't forget, there was a tremendous labour shortage in the 1950s. It was so easy to get a job! This was the reason why Asians were invited to come here to work in north of England textiles....another can of worms that I won't attempt to open!

I always liked my own income, my independence, and I still do like it. DH and I both receive our pensions into our own bank accounts. I could have got SRP from my first husband's contributions, then when I remarried I'd have had to get 60% of my second husband's SRP. We'd have been a lot worse off, but more importantly, I hate to feel dependent on any man, so I'm glad of those decisions I made decades ago.

Margaret Clare

And well done to you! Seriously, if there were more like you, then perhaps this country would not be in the mess it's in. I applaud you.

al_yrpal wrote:

I'm all for nationalism and that Andy Stuart guy because I'm fed up with subsidising Celtic scroungers. A bus pass is immaterial to me because I travel almost everywhere in my car, like most southerners, though I do think that poorer English pensioners get a raw deal compared with the nation we continue to subsidise North of the border. How anyone can have any pride in living somewhere which is a tax drain on everyone else because it happens to have some oil off its coasts beggars belief. Perhaps its just part of the perpetual scrounger mentality? A relation who worked in public service up there recently moved south. He got a nasty shock - all the council meetings in Scotland were held during the day, whereas in the hard working south they are held in the evening, because most southern councilliors work!

Judging by Grey's insulting comments he's transformed himself into a Super Victor Meldrew long before his time, turning him into exactly what he despises - that's justice!

You're absolutely right of course, or ARE you?

Ever wondered why Scotland is still part of the Uk? Yep, that's right. Scotland subsidises the rest of the UK, and until the oil runs out, us poor Scots are stuck with you "hangers on". All 50 odd million of you.

To prove my point, a number of documents regarding this very matter are still "classified", despite the freedom of information act.

That is the truth. Put that in your pipe and smoke it...

lilac_lady wrote:

When I (mis)read your last post (grex9101) you wrote "pretty" - it was "petty". Ho hum. Just when I thought you were mellowing....

I am mellow my dear, I just don't appreciate the government taking the absolute p*ss out of me

margaretclare

grex9101 wrote:

Perhaps the next time one of them rams me with their trolley, holds me up in a queue or lets a door go in my face, I will remind them of exactly who is supporting who.

And don't give me the war crap. I really have had enough of it.

I agree with you on both counts. I don't go to the supermarket - can't walk around it, too far - but my DH goes and, as you say, gets rammed with trolleys etc. Occasionally if he goes on a Saturday he says 'why do all the wrinklies go on Saturdays when they've got all week to go in?' And I say to him: 'Maybe they're all thinking the same about you!'

The 'war crap' as you put it - yes, I wrote something in an Age Concern discussion forum about how people always say: 'after all, we fought in the war...' and I got shouted down. Having said that, there should be the same facilities and services available to all - Neville Duke, the war hero and test pilot, shouldn't have to sell his medals to pay for his wife's hip surgery.

And well done to you! Seriously, if there were more like you, then perhaps this country would not be in the mess it's in. I applaud you.

Thank you. Put it all down to the family I grew up in - thrifty Yorkshire countryfolk, and my mum who was a single mum in the days when it really wasn't the thing to be. I can see her now, getting up and out on her bike on cold mornings when her asthma was bad, going out to give some idle cow her breakfast in bed.

I agree with you that savings and thrift should once again be encouraged, as it was back in earlier times. We maybe then wouldn't have people topping themselves because they've got into impossible debt...We had every encouragement to save where I grew up, and I have to smile when I hear the oldies say 'oh, I've never had a bank account, never needed one'. I've had one from the age of 5, the first day at the village school, September 1940. The school ran a sub-branch of a bank and every week I took a few pennies and my bank-book in a little hand-sewn bag. I still save!

However, some older people are very bitter - they say 'why save - our occupational pensions were stolen from us, we paid into e.g. Equitable Life and they went bust, I get nothing because I have a little savings, my neighbour never saved but gets full benefits'. And they laugh at me if I happen to say that I'm still saving because I like it. This is the kind of thinking that is around. Until we get rid of the 'dependency culture' and regain our pride and independence then we'll go on as we are.

Margaret Clare

al_yrpal

Super Victor,

Sorry, I don't smoke. Like Mel Gibson you share a love of myths. Don't worry, we'll continue the subsidies when it runs out, just as we did for all those years before anyone discovered it. Couldn't risk upsetting people in HM's playground.

Update - post budget. From 2008 us 'ammonias' will all be able to travel off peak all over the UK 'Scot free', including the oil rich subsidised northen bit. Just think if we all wore kilts the odour would be unbearable. Gives a whole new meaning to Auld Reekie!