Boundary Fence help!

behap

Hello,

I wondered if anyone had any advice with my query. Its a bit long winded but ill try to explain the circumstances best I can . We are first time buyers and we moved into our house 3 months ago. We purchased a modern end terrace house. We noticed on our first viewing of the property that the fence that divided us from next door was a bit wonky and would probably need replacing, but it belonged to next door not us so we didn't worry about it, it was nothing serious. Also, the fence and its posts ran directly down the middle of the border between the two properties. We had another viewing a few days later before we decided we would put in an offer on the house. Our offer was accepted on the house and we received our date when the contracts were going to be exchanged. During this period our next door neighbour to be had decided to replace the wonky fence and put up a new one, we didn't know this had happened until the contracts had been exchanged and we went back to the house. This all happened in the space of approx 2-3 weeks.

Here lies our problem, the neighbour has put the new fence bang on the middle of the border (no problem) but the posts are on our side,in fact one of them is actually screwed into the mortar of our house! He has pinched a good 6" of our border, having done it in the period the house was empty before we moved in. Initially we weren't goint to say anything to him about this as we didn't want to fall out with the neighbours as we had just moved in! He actually told me to get off his fence on Saturday as I briefly stood on one of the posts whilst we were putting some felt on our garden shed, he is a professional joiner/carpenter and the fence is very very sturdy and strong. We would not have damaged it in any way, and if roles had been reversed I'd have felt embarrased to have said anything! Anyways, does anyone know where I stand with regards to the fence? Can I request that he moves it back to his side? Any help/advice would be much appreciated. I am not being petty, I like a quiet life like everyone else, and I appreciate the hassle it could cause, but in this case I really don't care about neighbour relations!

sarah_elton

How do you know that the old fence wasn't inside his garden, and that the new fence isn't on the correct boundary?

If he has in fact put the fence inside your garden as per the property deeds, then I think there are channels you can go through to get it moved. But you need to check first that the boundary is where you think it is.

Also, it seems you've only changed your mind about it since he told you not to stand on the fence. It does sound like he was quite rude about it, but unless you're planning on standing on it regularly, is it really worth getting into a dispute over? If it turns into anything serious you'll have to declare it when you sell the house.

Whether 6" really makes a difference depends on the size of the garden I suppose.

inmypocketnottheirs

sarah_elton wrote: »

Whether 6" really makes a difference depends on the size of the garden I suppose.

Titter not Mrs......:rotfl:

behap

Thank you for the reply.

We assume it is not in the correct position for a couple of reasons (we have not yet checked the exact location via deeds or chartered survey etc, ours is based on the previous fence location and common sense!) both are not easy to explain without a photo but here goes...

Firstly, the house we have bought is fairly new (1993 build) and is the same as theirs. Therefore, the gap between our house windows at the rear of the property and theirs i.e. the "invisible" dividing line between properties from ground to roof is exactly 5 bricks. So, taking this as the basis for the border, the divide is 2 and a half bricks. That was where his previous fence was located, exactly on the 2 and a half bricks line (including posts).

Secondly, standing by the back door and looking towards the rear of the garden from the left hand side to the right (his property is on the right) a fence runs along there that joins the end of the new one he has put up. That particular fence is the original one that the builders put up when the houses were first built - just like what would have been the original fence before he put his up. If we keep to the 2 and a half bricks divide, the post at the end of that fence would be the dividing line i.e. 2 and a half bricks. This post has been cut off by him and replaced with a new post that supports the end of the new fence he has put up. Thereby leaving the original builders fence that is along the back of our garden without a supporting post! Sorry, I know that sounds confusing but I hope you get the gist of it!

Also, i appreciate what you are saying about the standing on his fence post incident, and i'm really not wanting to make my life hard by confronting him over it, but I guess that incident has just pushed me to say how I feel about it. Also, as well as that he has a bird table on top of one of the posts, so not only does the post cross our border the bird table is hanging over even further as well!

hicker

I too have a boundary dispute,but i am the one being accussed of tresspassing,as my neighbours say we have put a wall and fence on their land.
I am now being asked for proof that the wall and fence is on our land,does anyone know where i can get deeds to my property from,is it mortgage company,as our planning council do not seem to know?

lincroft1710

hicker - if you're buying with a mortgage your lender will hold the title deeds. However I am not certain that deeds are as comprehensive these days. Years ago they would give boundary measurements to the nearest inch.

behap - his bird table should not overhang your land. Whether you want to take any action about either this or the fence will depend on whether you can live with the "intrusion" or would prefer a stressful, prolonged neighbour dispute. He might move the bird table, but I'd doubt he'd move the fence unless he was legally obliged to.

mlz1413

behap and hicker get your deeds out, I think either the solicitors or the mortgage company can hold them and the solicitors can be dreadful at finding them. I think land registry hold boundary details but I'm not sure if they will be clear enough to work out the excate location within a brick size.

Behap do you have the details from the estate agent, were there any photos of the garden? Can you approach the neighbour whose fence now has no end support and team up with them? Can you get the old house owners to see if they have any outdoor photos or are willing to come back and see what has happened and maybe speak to or write to the neighbours? At very least write to you to acknowledge the moving of the fence.

Boundary disputes can lead to dreadful neighbour relations and I would be very careful about starting a small scale war on this. But the bird table is unnecessary and I would maybe see if the neighbour would remove this.

Neighbours who change boundaries when houses are empty obviously know what they are doing but getting them to acknowledge this out loud will probably take more than common sense and goodwill. As said before any dispute which goes to the council or the courts will be on record when you sell, so try to keep things reasonable.

Kazza62

Hicker, I presume you have a Mortgage in which case, your Charge Certificate (title deeds) will be with your Mortgage Provider). There are two ways to deal with this. You can request a copy of your Charge Certificate, including plan from the Land Registry. This can be done on line and there is a nominal fee for this. The second way is to contact your Solicitor/Conveyancer who dealt with your purchase and ask them to locate your file and provide you with a copy of the plan. These are always on the file as the Seller's Conveyancer provides this prior to exchange. On the plan, there are always "T" marks on the boundary lines which show who owns the boundary.

behap

Cheers for the replies everyone, I kinda guessed it might be messy having a grievance about the fence. I will mention to him about the bird table as that is definately moveable. Perhaps it's just one of them things, he definately knew what he was doing at the time, as there was noone there to stop him doing it. What I can't understand is why he didn't wait and then ask us if we wanted to share the costs involved in putting up a new one as we would have been fine with that and everyone would have been happy. Instead its now neighbours I have no time for whatsoever. I've done some further research on the internet today about this and it doesn't look too favourable to get the fence moved without a whole load of hassle, even though I'm 98% sure the fence is in the wrong place, after all it would have stood out like a sore thumb at the time we viewed the house. The old fence was definately not where the new one is! Anyways, thanks once again for those who replied much appreciated.

telfordwhite

I'm pretty sure (from reading a previous thread on here) that boundaries are not exactly specified unless there has been some cause to have had this done previously, so any legal action would probably be fruitless and EXPENSIVE.

Next time he tells you to get off his fence just politely inform him that you believe it is on your land and you will lean on it as you please until such time that he moves it onto his own land. Should give you some satisfaction without costing a penny...;)

prudryden

Boundaries are virtually impossible to pinpoint exactly. Remember it is only a thin line with you owning 1/2 of that line. T marks on deeds represent who has responsibility for the fence dividing the properties, not the boundary itself.
However, attaching something to your property without your permission is unaceptable. They can only do this if they have been granted easement. I would ask your neighbours to show you this easement grant and, failing that, suggest they remove the attachment.