Energy Companies Allegedly Misuseing Direct Debit Scheme

bristolleedsfan

bristolleedsfan wrote: »

Nice one Backfoot:T Ive just escalated my complaint as well.



Andy Eley
Head of Complaints


1 December 2008



Account no: 8500........


Dear Mr. Eley

Complaint about British Gas misusing the Direct Debit authority I trusted them with by requesting totally inappropriate Monthly payments, showing no apparent regard for my individual circumstances, not providing me with a honest or truthful explanation since November 6th, making no attempt since November 6th to set my Gas payments at an appropriate level merely throwing me on Quarterly billing as some form of apparent punishment thus forcing me to apply to switch to Scottish Power who have already informed me that my monthly direct debit will be set at a level based on the consumption that I have detailed them with.

Background: I live alone in a 3 Bedroom house; I was brought up to dress for the weather and I totally agree with Centric as reported advice about wearing extra Jumpers in the winter to save on heating costs.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/how-to-beat-60-rise-in-gas-prices-wear-two-jumpers-says-energy-boss-871805.html

Only in extreme cold weather would I put the heating on, I eat out

I have both years of previous years records as a British Gas customer and have been a British Gas customer previously during the last two years, so British Gas do have a record of my previous Gas consumption.

On previous occasions that I have switched to British Gas, British Gas have always contacted me to agree a monthly direct debit amount, During this latest switch to British Gas I was neither contacted during the switch in process nore did I receive any notification of the amount that British Gas planned to request every month in respect of Gas, I did receive such a notification in respect of Electricity which itself was lower than my normal consumption. (I have recently embarked on an Electricity use reduction exercise anyway)

Why did British Gas request 69.00 in respect of Gas from my Bank Account on or around 5th November 2008?

Why did I receive no prior notification that the above behaviour was to occur?

Why since 6th November have I not received a truthful and honest answer as to why the above occurred bearing in mind my own circumstances/lifestyle?

Why since 6th November have British Gas totally ignored what I have told them regarding my nominal Gas usage and made no ( Zero) attempt to set my Gas direct debit payments at a reasonable level.?

Do British Gas agree that they have no divine right to receive advance credits per customer of up to 200.00 and that ultimately it's the customers responsibility to ensure that their energy monthly payments will cover their usage and/or be able to meet any shortfall on demand by the energy company rather than British Gas merely receive interest free credit from its Direct Debit Customers?

Why has British Gas only apparent response to my complaint which also included me asking my Bank to reverse the totally inappropriate monthly payment demand from BG on 5th November, canceling the direct debit to prevent any further apparent excessive and inappropriate payment requests from British Gas been to throw me on the more expensive quarterly billing tariff ?

Since I made my response to BG payment request from my Bank account on 5th November as detailed above British Gas have asked me for a meter reading on two occasions, Why despite these actions have British Gas still not suggested an alternative monthly payment amount ?

Why despite no money owing, no apparent Gas used does British Gas apparent pathetic billing system say that I owe 66.67

I have now applied to switch to Scottish Power who have informed me that they propose to request a monthly direct debit of 32.50 for combined Electricity and Gas. Can you confirm that British Gas have registered my rejection of its apparent price increase that occurred when it threw me on its Gas Quarterly Billing tariff and that I will be charged at its Dual Fuel online, paperless billing, direct debit tariff during the switch out process.?

Should I decide to switch back to British Gas in the future what guarantee can you give me that British Gas will not abuse any future direct debit authority that I may furnish them with by only requesting Monthly payments that have been agreed in advance based on MY previous consumption?

Do British Gas agree that I applied to go on its Dual fuel/monthly direct debit/paperless tariff in good faith and had British Gas either/or/both contacted me to agree a monthly direct debit amount/ fixed the monthly direct debit amount based on my recorded previous consumption I would not have had to endure the subsequent stress/anxiety/worry/ time wasted emailing and writing complaints and that British Gas should in the circumstances credit my electricity account 8500....... with appropriate compensation for the stress/worry/anxiety it has caused me and the time I have wasted emailing and writing complaints.

I look forward to both your response and information as to when British Gas believe that its complaints procedure has been exhausted.


Yours Sincerely



CC:

Sam Laidlaw Chief Executive Centrica

Finally had a reply to this, reference to my emails is chasers ive had to keep making, Today is the first time that ive seen BG email of 29th January, reference to Gas of 0.00 is because I didnt use any Gas not because BG gave anything away, I was on Click 6 Energy so reference to cancellation fee is rubbish.

I plan to go back to BG on this, if Backfoot or anybody else who is not in apparent pro energy company lobby would like to offer any input it would be appreciated.

Does anybody know whether such complaints should be answered by post rather than by email like financial organisations are required to do ???????

Re: The point about returning to BG, im currently on the way to E.O.N, If BG were to increase its cashback to 60.00+ and do away with its websaver 1 cancellation fee then I might consider going back to BG.


fromCustomer Relations-Energy First

[EMAIL="Britishgas.CustomerRelations@centrica.co.uk"]Britishgas.CustomerRelations@centrica.co.uk[/EMAIL]
to......................
dateFri, Feb 6, 2009 at 2:34 PM
subjectYOUR ENQUIRY / 1-55,,,,,,,,,


Customer Reference Number: 8500 ..............


Dear .............

Further to my email on 29 January 2009 I am writing to ensure that you are happy with the response I have provided.

To ensure that you are happy with the information I have given I have not yet closed your case at this end. If you have any further questions or you would like to transfer your supply back to British Gas then please contact me on 08001 070 184 (extension 180643) before 20 February 2009. My working hours are 10am to 8pm, Tuesday to Friday. If I do not hear from you by this date then I will assume that you are happy with the actions that I have taken and I will close your enquiry.

I look forward to your response.

Yours sincerely

..................
Customer Relations


Previous email: 29 January 2009

Customer Reference Number: 8500 ,,,,,,


Dear .............

Thank you for your email to Andy Eley which we received on 25 January 2009. The details of this have been passed to me to investigate and respond. I am sorry for the delay in my response.

I would like to offer you the following information to help answer the questions that you have raised.

The direct debit on your account was set incorrectly when you agreed to transfer your supply to us on 8 October 2008. This was because the usage was erroneously set as the national average which caused a direct debit for £69.00 to be set up and requested from your bank on 5 November 2008. When ever a direct debit is set up then a notification is automatically sent to advise at least 14 days prior to the direct debit being collected. I understand that in this instance you did not receive this.

I can see that you have made a number of contacts to us since this occurred. I share your disappointment that you were not given a full explanation and re-assessment of the direct debit on your account. To prevent similar situations from occurring in future I have arranged for feedback to provided directly to the agents that you have dealt with.

The direct debit system is designed to breakdown the cost of energy over an extended period. I agree that this figure should always be reflective of the customers' actual usage and should be agreed prior to any funds being taken. As the amount people use varies throughout the year the actual balance of the account will at times be in debit or credit. The payment scheme is however, designed to ensure that there is a £0.00 balance at the end of the year.

When you completed the indemnity claim with your bank then the direct debit on the account was cancelled automatically. In this instance the account reverted to a quarterly payment method. I appreciate that this is at a higher rate than our direct debit tariff; however I can see that your account was subsequently billed to a balance of £0.00 and you have not been charged for any usage between 8 October 2008 & 29 December 2008 as a gesture of goodwill.

The bill sent for £66.67 was the cancellation fee for the tariff on which you transferred. I confirm that your account has now switched to Scottish Power and you have not been charged for any usage up to this date; the final balance of your account is £0.00. I appreciate that you have been caused trouble by these events, however in light of the removal of your cancellation fee and the withdrawal of all charges for our period of supply I will not be applying further compensation to your account.

I am sorry for both the trouble that you have been caused, as well as for the length of time it has taken to resolve. If you were to return your accounts to British Gas then I can assure you that these will be handled correctly. If you would like to discuss any of these issues or the transfer of your supply then please contact me on 08001 070 184 (extension 180643). My working hours are 10am to 8pm, Tuesday to Friday.

I look forward to your response.

Yours sincerely

................
Customer Relations

backfoot

Well done BLF on the outcome of this to date. :T

As in my case you have been totally and utterly vindicated. I think their admission letter is actually better than most but as usual they have tried to fob you off without compensation.

As you say,their so called gestures do not amount to anything whatsoever.I think you should make the two simple points that neither gesture is worth anything.

Then I would reiterate that you have received a full and frank admission of responsibilty for their errors and have been put to considerable distress,inconvenience and cost.

I have copied my succesful letter which you can edit for your own purposes: they paid up within hours of receipt of this by e mail.


'In this case,the sequence of events of continual denial of fault,obstruction and delay is a clear case of casuing inconvenience,distress and time and effort for me to pursue it to conclusion.Had the matter been resolved quickly and efficiently none of this correspondence and further distress would have occurred.

I realise that the Financial Ombudsman will not cover such cases but I am aware that the Energy Ombudsman holds a similar remit to resolve such disputes and make compensatory awards where necessary.

At this stage, I would be willing,' without prejudice ' to accept a sum of £50 to settle this matter. That represents an amount of 5 letters @ £5 each plus £25 for distress and upset.(The Financial Omudsman uses a guideline of £10 hour/per letter.)

If not,can you let me know that we have exhausted your complaints/dispute process with resolution, and I will pass the matter to the Energy Ombudsman without further delay.

I have absolutely no doubt they would find in my favour and at an award level well above £50.'


I hope this helps in some way. :beer:

bristolleedsfan

Thanks for your interest Backfoot. :T This is the response I put together.



British Gas
Customer Relations 08 February 2009


Dear Mr ,,,,,,,,,


Customer Reference Number: 8500 : YOUR ENQUIRY / 1-............


Thank you for your email of 6th February, a copy of a stated email of 29th January which I had not previously seen and a hard copy sent by post dated 3rd February of the stated email of 29th January.
Which was the first apparent response that ive had to my emailed complaint to Mr Eley dated 1 DECEMBER 2008.

I’m dissatisfied by both the delayed response to my emailed complaint of 1 DECEMBER 2008 and the contents of your response

1 Why did British Gas take TWO Months to respond to my escalated complaint of 1 December 2008?

2. Why apart from an initial acknowledgement did I receive no “holding responses” to at least put my mind at rest that the matter was in hand and in someone’s mind the result being that I
periodically had to keep chasing for a response and in addition as it looked as if no response was going to be forthcoming I have been spending time putting together a submission to the Energy
Ombudsman.

3.Why after TWO Months have I not received an “ACCURATE” response to my complaint? i.e.

A Why have you stated that my balance was billed to a balance of 0.00 and that I have not been charged for any usage between 8 October 2008 and 29 December 2008 as a gesture of goodwill
When the reason that I was billed for 0.00 is that I didn’t use any Gas during the above mentioned period.

B Why have you stated that “The bill sent for 66.67 was the cancellation fee for the tariff on which you transferred” when I was actually on Click 6, a Tariff without a Cancellation fee?

4. “The bill sent for 66.67” actually represents 69.00 “National Average” minus credit of 2.33 I already had from a previous occasion when I was with British Gas, I’ve checked my Bank
Statement and can see no apparent credit for 2.33. Can you confirm that should I return to British Gas in the future that I will return to 2.33 Gas Credit?

5. From 1 December emailed letter. Why was this not answered? “I have now applied to switch to Scottish Power who have informed me that they propose to request a monthly direct debit of 32.50 for combined Electricity and Gas. Can you confirm that British Gas have registered my rejection of its apparent price increase that occurred when it threw me on its Gas Quarterly Billing tariff and that I will be charged at its Dual Fuel online, paperless billing, direct debit tariff during the switch out process.?”

6. From 1 December emailed letter “ Do British Gas agree that I applied to go on its Dual fuel/monthly direct debit/paperless tariff in good faith and had British Gas either/or/both contacted me to agree a monthly direct debit amount/ fixed the monthly direct debit amount based on my recorded previous consumption I would not have had to endure the subsequent stress/anxiety/worry/ time wasted emailing and writing complaints and that British Gas should in the circumstances credit my electricity account 8500....... With appropriate compensation for the stress/worry/anxiety it has caused me and the time I have wasted emailing and writing complaints.”

You have acknowledged that I made “ a number of contacts” to BG since the 69.00 debit from my Bank account occurred, You have acknowledged the “trouble I have been caused” and you “appreciate that I have been caused trouble by these events”. You refer to me “completing the indemnity claim” with my Bank, in addition I cancelled the Direct Debit authority with my Bank to avoid further payments of 69.00 being taken and you refer to my “ switch to Scottish Power” which has incurred my higher energy costs albeit the only way that I was able to pay by direct debit hassle free at an appropriate monthly rate due to British Gas recorded behaviour in initially taking 69.00 from my bank account and then taking nearly THREE months to agree that the amount requested was incorrect and at no time offering to set the direct debit at a reasonable level based on my usage merely in the first instance telling me to wait until a review in February 2009.I was forced to leave British Gas Click 6 Tariff which for me appears to be cheaper than British Gas newly launched Web Saver 1 Tariff which means that if I was to return to British Gas I would return to a higher tariff with cancellation fees. You believe that British Gas have compensated me by means of a goodwill gesture by both removing a “Cancellation fee” which didn’t exist “and the withdrawal of all charges for our period of supply” when in reality no charges were withdrawn due to apparent fact that I didn’t use any Gas.


In the circumstances outlined above I believe ( and I hope that you agree) that it is an entirely reasonable expectation of mine that British Gas waive the Electricity charges that it applied during the period that I was with British Gas + pay me my previous Gas credit of 2.33 rounded up in total to a goodwill payment to me from British Gas of 50.00.

I look forward to a favourable response to the above request, In the event that you feel unable to meet my request, can you please let me know that when I have exhausted your complaints/dispute process and I will pass the matter to the Energy Ombudsman without further delay.

I have absolutely no doubt they would find in my favour and at an award level well above £50.

Thank you in advance of your time and consideration of this matter.


Yours Faithfully

backfoot

Hi BLF,

In commenting on your letter,I am torn between two views,which I hope you will see as constructive.

Firstly, I think your letter is entirely accurate and above all passionate about the frustration of this matter. That in itself is often how I feel about these unnecessary problems. I think it comes across powerfully in what you have said.

Secondly, I have to be realistic and say that much of it is probably wasted on BG and its administrative staff and processes.They will not feel the same way about it at all. In that respect,I think it is probably too long and 'in their face'.

I think that they accept they were inneficient and got it entirely wrong.I would try to condense the ongoing issue to a simple rejection of their 'apparent worthless gestures' and then state that in the circumstances they should now properly compensate for the distress,inconvenience and wasted time you have sufferred.

I personally think that the second approach would be more effective.Perhaps other readers could comment.:beer:

bristolleedsfan

Guess ill have to ask BG why they state that they dont compensate for ...... yet Mr Backfoot did receive compensation for ........

From the points that they made, their was no 69.00 overpayment/ credit by cheque as the DD payment taken for 69.00 was reversed by my bankers. 66.67 appears a very odd cancellation fee, BG did initially set me up on as fixed rate tariff, :rolleyes: that was changed to Click 6 energy before my supply began.


On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 6:32 PM, Customer Relations-Energy First [EMAIL="Britishgas.CustomerRelations@centrica.co.uk"]Britishgas.CustomerRelations@centrica.co.uk[/EMAIL] wrote:

Customer Reference Number: 8500 ,,,,,,

Dear ..........

Thank you for your email on 8 February 2009. In order to give you a full response to your complaint I would like to address each of the numbered points that you have raised.

1) Why did British Gas take TWO Months to respond to my escalated complaint of 1 December 2008?

Your complaint was allocated to one of our agents to respond on 10 December 2008, however it appears that they did not respond immediately and then subsequently left the company. The complaint was not referred to another agent due to a breakdown in communication. A copy of your email on 25 January 2009 was forwarded to me on 29 January and I sent a response by email and a subsequent copy of this which you have replied to.

I share your disappointment in the length of time it has taken for you to receive a response to your initial complaint. I would like to assure you that I have arranged for feedback to be provided directly to the relevant individuals to prevent similar situations from occurring in future.

2) Why apart from an initial acknowledgement did I receive no "holding responses" to at least put my mind at rest that the matter was in hand and in someone's mind the result being that I periodically had to keep chasing for a response and in addition as it looked as if no response was going to be forthcoming I have been spending time putting together a submission to the Energy Ombudsman?

Only the initial holding response is sent automatically upon receipt of a complaint. All further contact is normally sent manually by the agent that is handling the case. In this instance due to a breakdown in communication no manual response was sent until I received your email on 25 January 2009. I am sorry for any trouble that this has caused you and would like to assure you that this is not the level of service that we aim to provide our customers.

3) Why after TWO Months have I not received an "ACCURATE" response to my complaint?

A)I incorrectly stated that your account was billed to £0.00 as a gesture of goodwill. I am sorry for any confusion that this caused; this was human error due to misinterpretation of a previous note on the account.

The bill for £66.67 was a cancellation fee for the tariff on your account. This is because your account was not initially set up on the correct tariff causing a cancellation fee to be applied. The tariff on your account was subsequently updated to Click Energy 6.

4) The bill sent for 66.67 actually represents 69.00 "National Average" minus credit of 2.33 I already had from a previous occasion when I was with British Gas, I've checked my Bank Statement and can see no apparent credit for 2.33. Can you confirm that should I return to British Gas in the future that I will return to 2.33 Gas Credit?

The bill actually relates to a cancellation fee as mentioned above. The £2.33 credit refers to the payment of £69.00 that we took on 5 November 2008 minus the £66.67 cancellation fee. The cancellation fee was subsequently removed from your account leaving a credit of £69.00 which was refunded by cheque on 17 November 2008. I confirm that there is no outstanding credit on your account to be refunded.

5) From 1 December emailed letter. Why was this not answered? "I have now applied to switch to Scottish Power who have informed me that they propose to request a monthly direct debit of 32.50 for combined Electricity and Gas. Can you confirm that British Gas have registered my rejection of its apparent price increase that occurred when it threw me on its Gas Quarterly Billing tariff and that I will be charged at its Dual Fuel online, paperless billing, direct debit tariff during the switch out process.?"

Both accounts have now transferred to Scottish Power. The electricity account has been billed on the appropriate Dual Fuel, Online, Direct Debit tariff. There were no charges on the gas account as there was no consumption at the property therefore you have not been penalised for the cancellation of your direct debit.

6) From 1 December emailed letter " Do British Gas agree that I applied to go on its Dual fuel/monthly direct debit/paperless tariff in good faith and had British Gas either/or/both contacted me to agree a monthly direct debit amount/ fixed the monthly direct debit amount based on my recorded previous consumption I would not have had to endure the subsequent stress/anxiety/worry/ time wasted emailing and writing complaints and that British Gas should in the circumstances credit my electricity account 8500....... With appropriate compensation for the stress/worry/anxiety it has caused me and the time I have wasted emailing and writing complaints."

When a direct debit is set up then an automated confirmation of the agreement along with the amount is sent. If a customer disagrees with this amount then they can contact us prior to the direct debit being taken to discuss this. I share your disappointment that the direct debit was not set at the correct level; however as a company we do not compensate for either time or stress as it is impossible to quantify this in monetary terms. I will therefore not being applying any compensation to your electricity account. I would however like to apologise again for the trouble that you have been caused and would like to assure you that there will be no further troubles should you decide to return to British Gas.

Yours sincerely

Customer Relations

backfoot

I think you have a number of options:

1. Refer the case to the Energy Ombudsman for a ruling.This could establish a useful precedent for other Customers. You may want to test the water informally with them to see if there are already any similar adjudications.You have a total full and frank admission of responsibilty.They can't just wash their hands of it.I know for a fact, that the Financial Ombudsman awards compensation for similar errors.

2. Take the case to the Small Claims Court. I think you have a good chance of success to claim for costs,distress and inconvenience.I actually doubt they would defend for fear of losing.I will glady act as a witness to show that in similar cases they do make compensation/goodwill payments.

3. Complain via the press.I personally like the Sunday Times troubleshooter.Give your case as an example which typically affects hundreds of similar frustrated Customers. There used to be things called Standards of Service operated by the energy customers giving rights to compensation for failure to respond etc.

4. Give up.

I would choose 1,2 and 3 in that order and find another alternative before moving to 4......lol....:beer:

backfoot

bristolleedsfan wrote: »

1) Why did British Gas take TWO Months to respond to my escalated complaint of 1 December 2008?

Your complaint was allocated to one of our agents to respond on 10 December 2008, however it appears that they did not respond immediately and then subsequently left the company. The complaint was not referred to another agent due to a breakdown in communication. A copy of your email on 25 January 2009 was forwarded to me on 29 January and I sent a response by email and a subsequent copy of this which you have replied to.

I share your disappointment in the length of time it has taken for you to receive a response to your initial complaint. I would like to assure you that I have arranged for feedback to be provided directly to the relevant individuals to prevent similar situations from occurring in future.

Priceless ............:rotfl: So they sent the feedback to the person who left the company ! Wow, I bet they did.

Vey are lickle liars.:D

1carminestocky

LOL. They'll be blaming BLF for the decimation of their CS advisor numbers next. You literally couldn't make it up, could you?? :rotfl:

backfoot

1carminestocky wrote: »

LOL. They'll be blaming BLF for the decimation of their CS advisor numbers next. You literally couldn't make it up, could you?? :rotfl:

It's the same old patter every time. 'We have sent appropriate feedback'. The trouble is that it makes absolutely no difference. Indeed it has got worse.

Back to compensation, I would recommend that BLF looks at the website for the FOS because it clearly identifies circumstances where payments for time,distress and inconvenience are payable.

These tend to be those cases,where lack of action or incorrect treatment of a valid complaint leads to ongoing problems.I don't have experience of using the Energy Ombudsman, but they should apply similar principles.I believe BLF has been subject to unnecessary problems beyond that caused by one simple error.That was the case with me and BG's Direct Debits and they paid me up.

I had a similar case with Nationwide B.S who were entirely culpable over a misprocessed ISA and then an inabilty to resolve my subsequent and ongoing complaint.Like BLF,they responded with entirely spurious arguments and denials.They point blanketly refused me any compensation.I took the case to the FOS and within a day Nationwide were in panic,phoning and trying to settle with me prior to adjudication.

An initial derisory offer of £25 was finally settled over two phone calls for £210,purely for compensation. Result. :T

Every day in the press, Organisations are seen to be making goodwill payments for poor service.I don't see that BG are any exception.

scrape

I work for an energy supplier and we are told we can only reduce customer MDD by 10%

this has always been the case but never picked up on (ie people just did want they want)

Then as soon as the company announces a Rights Issue to raise £2 billion for an investment purchase they jump all over us telling us not to reduce customer MDD