Energy Companies Allegedly Misuseing Direct Debit Scheme

DirectDebacle

Joyful wrote: »

I’ve been through your calculations with my team, and the maths looks correct such that I expect that by next summer it will have evened out and you’ll have paid for the energy you’ve used......

Makes you wonder what all the fuss was about. Good old 'Call me Phil' Bentley has been through the figures and they all check out. So the problem was B.G. raised D.D. by the correct amount to factor in the price rise but forgot to give this as the reason. Therefore every single complaint was down to the silly customers not realising this. B.G. customers sure are lucky that their D.D. have only been raised by the exact amount the prices went up.

Probably just a glich in the system that Cardew had his lowered. Cardew is the one in a 6 million type of customer that spotted it.

Before you start Cardew I will agree with whatever figure you come up with in how many ones in a millions you are.

Cardew

DirectDebacle wrote: »

Probably just a glich in the system that Cardew had his lowered. Cardew is the one in a 6 million type of customer that spotted it.

Before you start Cardew I will agree with whatever figure you come up with in how many ones in a millions you are.

Not enough information to calculate the exact odds yet - but give me time!!!

Actually to be serious for a moment Joyful had exactly the same glitch and posted this in response to my post last month so even 'Senior?' BG employees get caught.:

I believe there was a system hiccup Cardew because mine did the same and reduced me from £23 to £8! Luckily I caught it after 2 months and changed my amount to catch up. If I remember there was quite a few around that time.I think it was when they decided to check every 3 months instead of 6 to stop people getting into debt with all the price changes.

Despite 'Phil's' letter, I am certain(as you imply) that there are still gremlins both ways as their computer system still has a few electrons misdirected.

However that gave rise to my contention that it is probably the c0ck up theory rather than the conspiracy theory - and things went downhill from that point;)

DirectDebacle

To add some facts – the average British Gas customer starts the winter with a £6.50 credit and ends it with a £70 debit to be recovered over the summer.

I don't understand this. Can anyone explain it to me. Is it 15 million approx customers are in credit. That is the credit accumulated by 6 million DD customers divided by the total no. of customers. Or is it that 6 million DD customers are on average in credit by £6.50 each.

Then after winter 9 million approx quarterly customers have all paid their winter bills and owe zero whilst the 6 million DD customers have underpaid on average about £25 per month less than they should to avoid B.G. being short of £70 per DD customer.

I like the fact that Phil gives facts even if I don't understand them.

Cardew

Incisor wrote: »

Thank you.


There you go, ducking and diving. I just want to pay a gas bill on quarterly terms, I do not wish to join a savings scheme. You have to be a bit on the dim side to believe that the 'large Direct Debit Discount ' is a genuine discount - rather it is a penalty on those who do not stump up a significant contribution to the suppliers Balance sheet. But that is not the reason I ignore the lost interest. I ignore this because [and this is something you are still refusing to grasp] many households do not have £300 or so which they would choose to put into a savings account, every penny is counted before it is spent. So, they are forced to work or go without in order to have £300 in their current accounts for the supplier to take away and put in its bank account


Yes. The suppliers are solving their cashflow problems at the expense of transferring them to consumers.


What a silly platitude.

The tone of your post is unpleasant.

I do not agree with your view of what is important - you think cash flow, I think cash - so we disagree!

I don't accept your £300 figure - we disagree!

You want to pay a gas bill quarterly without, as you term it(with some justification), being penalised by not getting a DD discount.

The fact you don't like the DD discount - doesn't make it disappear from the equation.

Ofgem and the Parliametary Committee on Energy agree with your sentiments(albeit on behalf of those who don't have Banking facilities)

The companies argue that the DD scheme saves them money - cash flow and not chasing people late/not paying - and customers should be given an incentive to pay by DD.

Water companies don't give DD discount but you pay 6 months in advance.

Would we be happy to pay an estimated quarterly bill in advance(No don't answer!!)

We both agree the term "we will have to agree to disagree" is a silly platitude.
However in this case it is appropriate.

DonnySaver

DonnySaver wrote: »

I'm a bit dubious about them also. I went onto E.ON's price protection september 2009 scheme (dual fuel) in the summer just before the prices went up. I expected my bill to go up by around 15% (the average to be expected for capping). Just had a letter from E.ON though saying that my monthly direct debit is going up from £77/month to £103/month! That's a 33% increase and yet my overall gas/electricity consumption is down on last years!

Just looked around on the comparison website though and found that I can get nothing significantly cheaper elsewhere either. What's going on ??

Just to give you an update. I phoned E.ON yesterday as I noticed that my account was actually £100 in credit. Spoke to a very nice lady on the phone who explained the DD system to me. She also said that my average usage over the whole year was actually £85/month (not £103/month). So, I've asked for my DD to be set at £85/month and I'll review it again in the spring.

backfoot

Thanks Joyful,

It is indeed a lovely ,lovely letter from Mr..Bentley.

I haven't received it even though I am affected by a DD problem.Which is probably a good thing, because I am sure that Mr.Bentley would realise that it doesn't stack up. Has he really checked the system out? You know really done that?

On gas, the credit entering winter quarter was well over £100 on a £360 annual cost.

An unsolicited rise of DD by 16% ,when moving to a tariff some 25% cheaper.

The inabilty of the trained staff to read my concerns and respond to them rather than fobbing me off.

Nevertheless a lovely lovely letter.:j

1carminestocky

backfoot wrote: »

Thanks Joyful,

It is indeed a lovely ,lovely letter from Mr..Bentley.

I haven't received it even though I am affected by a DD problem.Which is probably a good thing, because I am sure that Mr.Bentley would realise that it doesn't stack up. Has he really checked the system out? You know really done that?

On gas, the credit entering winter quarter was well over £100 on a £360 annual cost.

An unsolicited rise of DD by 16% ,when moving to a tariff some 25% cheaper.

The inabilty of the trained staff to read my concerns and respond to them rather than fobbing me off.

Nevertheless a lovely lovely letter.:j

One does have to wonder about Mr Bentley's thought processes. Just 4 months ago he was of the opinion that we were entering 'a period of sustained high energy costs'


PS I also would like to see one month from now if the reduction in complaints has been maintained. By my reckoning, the fact that they have ringfenced 300 full-time staff to answer DD complaints means they are probably expecting somewhere in the region of 25,000 - 30,000 calls per week just on DDs. :eek:

backfoot

I am not sure how the £6.50 credit squares with the policy of not refunding credits until you reach £200 credit.

Copied directly from the letter received '

Your payments are calculated based on your previous year's consumption and any balance that was included when the scheme was set up. Your payments are reassessed every three months. Any credit of £200 or more at the time of your annual review will automatically be refunded to you. Any credit of less than £200 will be added to your account and carried forward to the next payment plan year and your payments adjusted accordingly.'

The 'lovely,lovely letter' indicates that that BG are doing us all a great big favour. Aaaahhhh but wait....When you want your money back and payments are sufficient to cover the next twelve months, we will retain nearly 2/3rds as a lovely,lovely gesture to show how much we care about you................:rotfl:

DirectDebacle

It does stack up and of course he has checked it out otherwise he wouldn't have said so.

I’ve been through your calculations with my team, and the maths looks correct such that I expect that by next summer it will have evened out and you’ll have paid for the energy you’ve used.

I bet if you leave the DD alone it will have at least evened out by the summer and you will have paid for the energy you've used.

He forgot to mention the other plus point that according to his calculations any further unnecessary increases or necessary decreases to your DD may not be as large.

He will probably write to you personally rather than send a generic letter as your DD anomaly is obviously rare.

DirectDebacle

Although not mentioned I expect Phil will be attaching one of his own worked examples to the letter. This will show customers how straightforward DD calculation really is and they can keep it for future reference.