It is tough NOW. So how are we coping

ceridwen

Folio wrote: »

It is utter and complete madness. I have a brother who took bankruptcy - he will be bankrupt for just 1 year and never have to pay back the £35,000 plus he squandered on cars, meals out, Saturday shopping and spoiling his kids. Nor will he have to pay back the £250,000 mortgage he couldn't afford - but that's Ok - the council re-housed him! :mad: .

Sorry if I sound bitter - and yes I know that the council had a duty of care to his children....but whatever happened to personal responsibility? Seems to me too many people now think they can have or do what they want, when they want, and expect society to look after them when they come a cropper.

Of course anyone can fall on hard times and end up defaulting on a loan if unexpected redundancy or sickness strikes. I have sympathy for these people (and I've been very sorry to read some of the posts on here about job losses - hugs to you all) But people like my brother borrowed money knowing he could never afford to pay it back. he used to say jokingly that if he couldn't afford to keep his house, the council would have to find him somewhere - and they did! within 3 weeks! He also has a grown up son who is a single parent. He had a baby after a 1 night "relationship", the mother didn't want the baby after the first 3 months so my nephew took the baby on - because, in his words "HE COULD GET A COUNCIL HOUSE AND BENEFITS IF HE DID" :mad::mad::mad: And he has exactly that - a housing association house free of charge and benefits. He lives in deep squalor and I worry all the time about that baby. But I also worry about how much longer society can afford to fund benefits for anyone - both those who claim by choice and those who claim out of desperation. And eventually those who HAVE to claim through no fault of their own are going to find that even a spindly safety net has been worn away by the sheer weight of hangers on.

Quite....we all know that s**t can happen to the best of us - but we DO have to take personal responsibility to do our personal best to live life in a responsible way. Any of us could develop a serious illness tomorrow and find it ends up costing us money one way or the other. Any of us could lose even an apparently secure job tomorrow. BUT - we must do what we can to look out for ourselves and not expect the "safety net" to come into operation just because its there and it can. Its a pretty darn threadbare "safety net" and it does concern me that it might become even more threadbare because of hangers-on deliberately out to "milk the System". Some people don't even try to provide for themselves - but its a fact of life that with adulthood come these sort of responsibilities. I recall often hearing my father say "While you are still a child - then I provide for you and I have paid into the NHS to cover any illness you have. When you grow up - then you will provide for yourself and you will pay into the NHS to cover yourself." I do see, for instance, two distinct groups of mothers walking round my area -pale-faced and unhealthy looking with the scraped-back hair that seems to be the "badge" of deliberate single motherhood - and poor "scraps" of children usually sitting pretty listlessly in their prams (and I feel sorry for those poor little b*****s - as you just know they arent looked after properly and they know already that they are not loved) on the one hand and healthy/happy-looking mothers with carefully-chosen pushchairs proudly wheeling their happy/healthy-looking babies round on the other hand (and I'm thinking "I bet you're not a deliberate single-parent family") and looking at their cared-for looking little child that obviously (from the look on its face) knows already that they are loved brings a smile to the face.

It really annoys me as well when people take on debts they don't seem to have any real intention of repaying and it doesnt seem to bother them that much if they go bankrupt - and sometimes they even do it several times in a row and one sees no sign of them honoring the moral obligation to pay back the creditors later if their finances improve enough to do so. They just quote the legal position that says they dont have to.

Some people have bankruptcy done to them. They have done their best to deal with their obligations - and have been landed in it against their will by the actions of others. They have honestly done the best they can to avoid bankruptcy - but, ultimately, due to no fault of their own have been put in that position. They have also vowed to themselves that they will pay back their creditors if they ever are in a position to do so - even if they dont have to. These - one feels sorry for. Its the others that havent tried and dont care that are the problem here.

It is difficult all round. Also - it doesnt help that the role models we usually see of people who have acquired wealth are those who just "blow" the lot on themselves with high-living/expensive houses and cars and not working at all (even voluntary work) because they dont need to. There are very few role models of people who have acquired wealth - and then proceed to decide just how much of that money it is fair for them to keep and they give away the rest.

mardatha

There was a lovely lottery winner , a couple, who gave all the money to build a new wing for their local hospital. Good people..but few and far between. When you find just one good person, it lights up the world .

Primrose

Westywoodpecker - sorry about your son's redundancy. Having lived through a couple of redundancies in our household I know how devastating it can be - it feels like a personal rejection of all you are worth and all your skills, but of course it's not. As your son is a car mechanic could he try and freelance around your local area to earn some money until another job comes along if he's sufficiently advanced in his training. If he has some tools, there may be lots of car drivers around who are watching the pennies at the moment and if he could undercut the local garages there might be an income for him, if he's got the courage to spread the word amongst friends and neighbours.
Redundancy is a horrible and worrying experience but if you try and take a positive viewpoint, once you are back on your feet again it can often be life-changing in the way it makes you change and review your spending and saving habits, and sometimes the hardest lessons learned are the ones which are most valuable for the future. I hope your son finds another job soon.

Guapa1

mardatha wrote: »

Ceridwen -- considering my mum's been dead for 25 years --if she ever does come when I yell, then I'll know I'm in BIG trouble !! LOL
Re the "credit crunch", debt, spending et al -- I can't be judgemental (too lazy). I think we are all given the same chances in life, we choose our own path & then we get on with it. What goes around comes around --so all things have a price, the choice is ours. My OH's fav words are "blame" and "fault". I dont waste time on them, I just find a way to cope And coping is much easier with the good people in here.

You know on good days, this is how I feel.
However on bad days (like this one), I am angry.

I wonder why I even bothered to work so hard to leave the estate I was bought up on.
I made mistakes and got into a lot of debt, but I owned it and paid every single penny of those debts back. I've worked hard to buy my first property all alone while the people I've grown up with got had kids with men who are not pleasant and knew they wouldn't stick around. They have now got a flat bigger than mine paying less than I ever have. I've watched them change car every year, laugh at me for not wanting to do HP and keep my 'old' car that I've had for years.

Then this year through no fault of my own, I had an accident at work and have used nearly all my savings to get well. Nothing has worked so I got referred to a pain clinic to be told that this is it, this is the pain you're going to be left with. Now my job requires at least 80% fitness and nearly a year later I'm not even close to that.

I'm being harassed by the company my employers have employed to 'facilitate my return to work', and I'm having to come to the terms that I might have to leave a job that I absolutely adore, have been doing for 10 years and not trained in anything else.

I'm now down to half pay and am paying my bills with my savings. I've got £35 a month for groceries. I've applied for benefits, but because so many people do muck the system about, they can't seem to believe that someone in their late 20s could be in chronic pain so I've been rejected.

This afternoon, I've called and made appointments with estate agents to come and valuate my flat so I can let it out and will go back and live with my mother. I know, I'm lucky to have this option, but I am angry it has got to this. I am angry at myself for having dreams I could be better. And I am angry at the people who take liberties with the system so that real people in real need have to jump through hoops to get anywhere.
Sometimes I feel I should have stayed on the estate had kids with the guy from the next block and sat in my double glazed flat on benefits.

aurora_borealis_2

this might be worth a try for someone?

Hope so.

D&DD

We got into debt through a combination of circumstance,some our own fault but mostly just the at a time when I was the main wage earner..
The loss of my wage(s) I did 3 jobs was a huge blow and we never really recovered until we found this site...
This said,we NEVER,EVER even considered, not paying every last penny back,and although it has made the last three years very,very hard I feel we did the right thing.

pagangirl

Sorry to hear about your son westy - like pitlanepiglet - I was made redundant after 18 months at my first job - I was devastated - didn't know how to go home & tell me mum n dad - I thought it was my fault - something I had done wrong. Once I told them - and was reassured it wasn't me, that helped somewhat. Big hugs to you both :grouphug: Hope something comes up for him soon.

Caterina

ceridwen wrote: »

I often see people announcing they have just become pregnant in one breath and saying how they are in debt in the next breath - and I've just given up yelling at my P.C. screen "WHAT! WHY? Why didnt you wait till you were clear of debt ?"

Ceridwen I know where you are coming from in this thinking, but I believe that if people waited for the"right moment" to have children, the human race would risk coming to an end (now, whether this is a bad thing or otherwise, it is debatable! :cool: ).

Westy, so sorry to hear about you DS's redundancy. I wish him all the best and please tell him from me that this should be seen as an opportunity not a defeat, I should know, having had more job changes than hot dinners in my life! Good luck.

And best wishes also to all of you who are finding the current situation difficult and challenging.

Love to all

Caterina

Caterina

I feel with all my heart the pain that so many people must feel when threatened by redundancy, debt and poverty.

But could I please exhort the posters here to consider the reasons at the back of what has been called "deliberate single motherhood".

Isn't it TRAGIC that anyone HAS TO MAKE A BABY in order to get housing? Isn't a suitable home a basic human right?

The number of DELIBERATE single mothers (and I can vouch for this having worked in the community for what seems a million years) is much less than the gutter media would have us believe, in the same way that asylum seekers are by far and wide genuine people who have left their countries for really serious reasons and aren't (again, as some media would lead us to believe) scroungers and criminals.

There is a fundamental problem at the back of all this and it is the lack of political willingness to support the truly needy.

So many people here I am sure will say that in olden times these things were not quite as bad etc. To this I would argue that since the olden times, e.g. when the welfare state and NHS really worked as they were true nationalised services, when council housing was for rent and not for sale, there have been dramatic political changes that have turned the UK into a private enterprise, run by a few multinationationals. I personally would start looking at what Margaret Thatcher has done to ruin this country!

I arrived here in 1983 when things were still working and Maggie hadn't yet had time to destroy Great Britain through her senseless policies of doom. Within a few years I could see the difference and it did not look good! Unfortunately it is not even a "party thing", as Labour has followed through with just as damaging policies and the ones who pay for all this is

US: THE PEOPLE!!!

So it is not something that can be remedied by changing vote, but I believe that a solution (slow perhaps but the only one possible) is of personal responsibility and solidarity - the poor single pram-pushing girls, with their "council house facelift" hairdos and large earrings, are nothing but victims of a system that encourages the creation of need and exists only to feed itself.

Please don't let's blame the victims. Thank you.

Ah well... got that one off my chest! Just my opinion though.

Caterina

MRSMCAWBER

evening all

So sorry for the folks facing job losses at the moment... my brother is finished just before christmas :rolleyes: . Luckily for him he has been back at mums for the last 8 years.. his work mates are all losing their jobs too -they are up to their necks in mortgages, children etc.. my brother doesn't have any of that -so regardless of the work situation he will have a roof over his head and food in his belly
Our mum is 69 and on a pension with a small works pension -but is super frugal at budgetting and has raised beds put in early this year so grows as much as possible :T -so he will never go hungry

My hubby was only saying today that he is so glad that the army asked him to do an extra 5 years after his 22.. he had just trained (via the army) to be an excavator driver... so there would have been a good chance that he would have been hit by redundancy :eek: as it is we now have another 3 and a bit years to keep on "fruggaling" and getting as much saved as possible ... ready for joining civvy street ..at which point we will be debt free and be able to pay off a chunk of our mortgage... then his part pension will pay the rest of the monthly mortgage .. so we are hoping to be ok..and who knows -things may be on the up by then
heck Im rambling....

oh before I go..Ceridwen -I have started my Potio appotment blog