Power of attorney

Emma_L_2

Hi,
I'm not sure if this is in the right place so please move it if it's not.

Hoping someone can help please?
My father in law in just about to move to residential nursing care due no longer being able to cope at home. It is entirely his choice and he has given my husband a copy of an official power of attorney letter that is been kept at a bank.

My question is what do we do now? Is this all we need ? The bank don't seem to know. Do we need to fill anything else in as he is self funding and we will need to have access to his accounts to pay for his care.

Thanks in advance

fredsnail

I assume that this is a fairly old POA?

The rules changed a couple of years ago - I'm in the same position with my grandfather but we completed the new EPA's which had to be registered with the Office of the Public Guardian before they could be used - I assume that the old POA's also have to be registered.

With regards to access to his bank account - if you write a letter asking that you and your husband can instruct the bank, sign cheques etc and get your father in law to sign it - or get your father in law to write the letter - this would be enough for most banks to accept and action without waiting for the POA.

I hope he settles into his new home well.

Biggles

Emma_L wrote: »

My father in law in just about to move to residential nursing care due no longer being able to cope at home. It is entirely his choice and he has given my husband a copy of an official power of attorney letter that is been kept at a bank.

I'm not quite sure what it is he's given your husband. A Power of Attorney will be on an offical form, signed by your FiL (the 'donor') and your husband (the 'attorney'), and not in the form of a letter.

Is it actually an Enduring Power of Attorney? How long ago was it made out?

Is your FiL now incapable of managing his own affairs due to lack of mental capacity, or just wanting your husband to manage stuff for him now that he's in a care home?

sloughflint

You say an official power of attorney letter. By that I presume it is a document signed by your FIL giving your husband POA.
If the bank is unaware, I wonder if it was just being kept there for safe keeping?

If your FIL still has mental capacity, then all your husband needs to do is show the documents to the financial institutions so that they can record him as attorney.

If your FIL however has started to lose mental capacity, then I suggest that FIL's GP is consulted to see if he can still make financial decisions. If not then as attorney, it will be your husband's duty to register the POA with the Court of Protection.

edit:I've made the assumption that it was an Enduring Power of attorney document ie pre September 2007.Your husband would also have signed the document when it was created if it is.

loulou41

I have POA for my son. He likes to travel a lot just to give me authority over any issues related to his account in his absence. He is with Nationwide and we both had to fill and sign forms related to the accounts he wants me to have control. NW also took a copy of the POA and I got an official letter telling me that the accounts have been registered. With NW, you are asked in the form whether you need a cheque book or card which I did not. Also there is a part that says if he is mentally incapacitated, it has to be registered. With HSBC, all we need to do is to fill a third party form mandate. If you take the POA to the bank he uses, they will tell you what to do? Hope this helps.

monkeyspanner

If an EPA (old style prior to October 2007) it does not need to be registered if your FIL is still mentally capable. If your FIL is no longer mentally capable then your husband will need to register the POA. There is a proceedure for this which includes having to inform the donor (your FIL) and other relatives that you intend to have the POA registered. The primary reason for this is that once registered your FIL will no longer be deemed capable of looking after his finances and will no longer be able to issue instructions. More details of this can be found on the public guardians website.

If the EPA is not registered then many financial institutions feel slightly exposed because they could be expected to take possibly contradictory instructions from both your FIL and Husband. For this reason many will ask for more specific instructions from your FIL. This can cause problems particularly if your husband wishes to move money to new accounts to obtain better rates of interest.

Each bank has different rules for dealing with POAs and we have had specific problems with my MILs POA with some banks including but not limited to Abbey.

dzug1

fredsnail wrote: »

With regards to access to his bank account - if you write a letter asking that you and your husband can instruct the bank, sign cheques etc and get your father in law to sign it - or get your father in law to write the letter - this would be enough for most banks to accept and action without waiting for the POA.

I hope he settles into his new home well.

I very much doubt if any bank these days will accept a simple letter. Of those that I know of Natwest and C&G will provide a simple form to to complete to add a third party to the account. Some of the signatures need to be witnessed and the C&G say it is not appropriate to use if the account holder has lost/is likely to lose mental capacity.

Abbey will accept nothing but a full POA.

bigbloke45

Emma, all of the above is helpful. Just be careful every time you use the POA because most banks do not have staff who have a clue!!!

Make sure you check everything and also get the names of anyone you speak to and be prepared to go over their heads immediately. The worst thing is usually the stopping of any cheques signed by you as attorney.

I speak from bitter experience; Barclays and Abbey were two of the worst offenders!

Good luck ( and try to keep smiling, it IS important!)

Biggles

Nice to see someone grateful for all the offers of help, eh?
:-)

artha

What happens if someone becomes so mentally ill that they are not considered fit by a GP/Solicitor to know what they are doing in signing a consent for POA and are not capable of running their own financial affairs?

LooniesMum

Has your FiL gone into a care home because of mental or physical debilitation? Surely being in a care home isn't reason enough to invoke the POA?! If he's still able to understand what's needed, then it may be just a question of helping with the forms and reading things through with him before he signs them. If he's lost mental capacity then you need to register the power of attorney - the original document and letters should give details of the solicitors who prepared the documents. Be warned though (and see the recent thread on power of attorney documents) - it takes MONTHS to get registered! It's not really funny, but my father actually died five months after we'd applied - and it still wasn't registered !!!

Whoever the attorney is also needs to start gathering information from the FiL's home (presume mum in law no longer with us?) - have a look around for bank statements and pension statements. Find the NI number too. If he's in a care home it's quite possible he's entitled to attendace allowance too - https://www.direct.gov.uk gives more information.

Regarding the banks - yes it's like wading through treacle! I was having to do all this about 18 months ago, using the old style enduring POA. I found it useless speaking to anyone answering the central/general phone lines - going into a branch was much better. Nat West locally were very good, but useless over the phone! The other recent thread explains that the arrangements for bank accounts are different now, so I'm afraid my experience, though recent, is out of date on that score.

First port of call is probably a solicitor.

Hope that helps......