Tax Credits and changes in working hours

machairs

Hi

I was working 49 hours and have now dropped to 28. Nothing else has changed ie the amount I earn is the same as given to TCO in April and my children are only in childcare for 28 hours as notified also in April. Will this affect the amount I am currently getting? My dh works 40 hours so my understanding is that as long as we are jointly working 30 hours, there will be no change in payment????

Anne

missk_ensington

Technically it says Under 30 hours a week and you are part time, but I wouldnt bother telling them TBH for the sake of 2 hour. When I used to work at KPMG a few years ago I worked 2 days (14 hours a week) and claimed it as 16, and just did a couple of weeks full-time in the uni summer holidays so that it averaged 16 over the year - which is perfectly acceptable. (I hasten to add that there is no way of them ever knowing how many hours a week you work, since that info isnt on your P60 which is why many people working 16 hours a week for say £12,000 a year (a very good salary, pro-rata not much in tax credits) tell Tax credits they work 35 hours a week for £12,000 (perceived as a low income = a lot of tax credits) Not saying its right, just pointing out that thousands of people do it and Tax Cred dont have the man power or resources to check up on how many hours people work, and even if they did contact the employer who said the contract was X hours, one could still argue that they do overtime that avergages the hours stated.

With regard to OH working 40 hours still, Im not sure but would assume you would still qualify for the 30 hour element so the fact your working less is completely irrelevant anyway

[Deleted User]

missk_ensington wrote: »

Technically it says Under 30 hours a week and you are part time, but I wouldnt bother telling them TBH for the sake of 2 hour. When I used to work at KPMG a few years ago I worked 2 days (14 hours a week) and claimed it as 16, and just did a couple of weeks full-time in the uni summer holidays so that it averaged 16 over the year - which is perfectly acceptable. (I hasten to add that there is no way of them ever knowing how many hours a week you work, since that info isnt on your P60 which is why many people working 16 hours a week for say £12,000 a year (a very good salary, pro-rata not much in tax credits) tell Tax credits they work 35 hours a week for £12,000 (perceived as a low income = a lot of tax credits) Not saying its right, just pointing out that thousands of people do it and Tax Cred dont have the man power or resources to check up on how many hours people work, and even if they did contact the employer who said the contract was X hours, one could still argue that they do overtime that avergages the hours stated.

With regard to OH working 40 hours still, Im not sure but would assume you would still qualify for the 30 hour element so the fact your working less is completely irrelevant anyway

That difference of 2 hours meant you commited fraud.

The limits are 16 or 30 for a reason. Tell TCO immediately.

missk_ensington the forums are not here to tell people that they should commit fraud. You quoted the rules so you know they are there.

If you are chosen for a compliance investigation TCO can tell how many hours you work - they are linked to income tax you pay every week/month on your wages.

And you will also be asked to provide payslips for X number of months, not just your P60.

At the moment there is quite a crack down of tax credit cheats.

[Deleted User]

TCO want to know your regular working hours, not your average over the year. The regular number of hours worked is the number that you will work for a minimum of 4 consecutive weeks.

[Deleted User]

machairs wrote: »

Hi

I was working 49 hours and have now dropped to 28. Nothing else has changed ie the amount I earn is the same as given to TCO in April and my children are only in childcare for 28 hours as notified also in April. Will this affect the amount I am currently getting? My dh works 40 hours so my understanding is that as long as we are jointly working 30 hours, there will be no change in payment????

Anne

Your award should stay the same as between you and your partner , you work 30+ hrs p/w. However you should still notify TCO that your hours have reduced.

If your partner was to become unemplyed the tax credits would be based on your hours only so it is best to keep them updated.

LizzieS_2

subsoniccoyote wrote: »

TCO want to know your regular working hours, not your average over the year. The regular number of hours worked is the number that you will work for a minimum of 4 consecutive weeks.

Just to add to the above, TCO made a change for term-time workers some time ago allowing for a 4 week follow on into school holiday periods without accounting for those hours being nil during those 4 weeks. It was done to avoid claims for wtc stopping and starting, though in some instances it actually made people worse off as they couldn't then claim IS during school holidays.

Some changes do not affect the calculations, but it is better to keep TCO up to date as they will only expect you to remember everything at the end of the year anyway.

Conor_3

You shouldn't lose any money as you only get one set of +30hrs entitlement. It's only worth £15 a week anyway if you were to lose it.

missk_ensington

subsoniccoyote wrote: »

That difference of 2 hours meant you commited fraud.

The limits are 16 or 30 for a reason. Tell TCO immediately.

missk_ensington the forums are not here to tell people that they should commit fraud. You quoted the rules so you know they are there.

If you are chosen for a compliance investigation TCO can tell how many hours you work - they are linked to income tax you pay every week/month on your wages.

And you will also be asked to provide payslips for X number of months, not just your P60.

At the moment there is quite a crack down of tax credit cheats.

What absolute rubbish. Firstly, I would never come onto a public forum, with a traceable IP, and say to hundreds of people to commit fraud.

Secondly, it isnt fraud. I was told from the horses mouth when I was at KPMG that I could claim 16 hours (some weeks I did overtime totalling 40+ hours a week work, I am hardly expected to keep ringing up every few weeks to say 'I did 40 hours this week, change it the 30 hour element). At one point I was ringing up twice ion every 2-3 weeks to change it from Under 16 to over 30, and back again and they told me to just put it down as 16 cos it was costing money and paperwork and postage for them to keep changing it.

Then youve got workers who for example work in schools, maybe as secretary/dinner ladies...etc and dont get paid during the holidays, so should they not get their tax credits because technically for 6 weeks in the summer they're not working at all? Its not black and white.

Secondly, Tax Credits do not, and have never asked for pay slips. Firstly many people are self-employed (myself included) and many people do not keep their pay slips (when I was employed I looked at it, checked it and binned it/lost it) it does not say ANYWHERE that as a tax cred recipient you are dutybound to have your payslips for inspection. So please dont talk cr*p.

trevormax

missk_ensington wrote: »

What absolute rubbish. Firstly, I would never come onto a public forum, with a traceable IP, and say to hundreds of people to commit fraud.

Secondly, it isnt fraud. I was told from the horses mouth when I was at KPMG that I could claim 16 hours (some weeks I did overtime totalling 40+ hours a week work, I am hardly expected to keep ringing up every few weeks to say 'I did 40 hours this week, change it the 30 hour element). At one point I was ringing up twice ion every 2-3 weeks to change it from Under 16 to over 30, and back again and they told me to just put it down as 16 cos it was costing money and paperwork and postage for them to keep changing it.

Then youve got workers who for example work in schools, maybe as secretary/dinner ladies...etc and dont get paid during the holidays, so should they not get their tax credits because technically for 6 weeks in the summer they're not working at all? Its not black and white.

Secondly, Tax Credits do not, and have never asked for pay slips. Firstly many people are self-employed (myself included) and many people do not keep their pay slips (when I was employed I looked at it, checked it and binned it/lost it) it does not say ANYWHERE that as a tax cred recipient you are dutybound to have your payslips for inspection. So please dont talk cr*p.

subsoniccoyote is correct. Telling the tax office you work 30 hours a week when you dont in order to get tax credits is fraud as you are using deception to obtain money you are not entitled to. The tax credit compliance office might pick up on the drop in wages and start asking questions. There is nothing stopping them from sending a letter to you or your employer. If someone at HMRC told you not to bother telling them when your hours change then either they told you wrong or you missunderstood them.

To your point about people who work different hours each week, tax credits are awarded based on what hours you NORMALLY do. If you normally do 10 hours a week, then do 30 hours overtime for one week and go back to 10 hours as normal, you are seen as working 10 hours per week. If the overtime forms part of your working hours on a normal basis, then they will count. If your hours are expected to stay below the 16 or 30 hour limit you HAVE to inform them.

This is a moot point however as the OP has stated they have a partner who also works. The total amount of hours is more than 30/week so they qualify. The OP should inform the tax office though as their pay will have no doubt gone down and they will possibly be entitled to more tax credits.

tinkerbell84

Not kept a tally, but missk_ensington is frequently caught out committing fraud on here through her posts

DreamerV

missk_ensington wrote: »

What absolute rubbish. Firstly, I would never come onto a public forum, with a traceable IP, and say to hundreds of people to commit fraud.

Secondly, it isnt fraud. I was told from the horses mouth when I was at KPMG that I could claim 16 hours (some weeks I did overtime totalling 40+ hours a week work, I am hardly expected to keep ringing up every few weeks to say 'I did 40 hours this week, change it the 30 hour element). At one point I was ringing up twice ion every 2-3 weeks to change it from Under 16 to over 30, and back again and they told me to just put it down as 16 cos it was costing money and paperwork and postage for them to keep changing it.

Then youve got workers who for example work in schools, maybe as secretary/dinner ladies...etc and dont get paid during the holidays, so should they not get their tax credits because technically for 6 weeks in the summer they're not working at all? Its not black and white.

Secondly, Tax Credits do not, and have never asked for pay slips. Firstly many people are self-employed (myself included) and many people do not keep their pay slips (when I was employed I looked at it, checked it and binned it/lost it) it does not say ANYWHERE that as a tax cred recipient you are dutybound to have your payslips for inspection. So please dont talk cr*p.

Actually I also agree with subsonic, it was fraud, even if unintentional. Your average hours for most of the year was below the 30hrs, therefore you wouldn't have been entitled to it. And there are many cases where officers at tco have requested payslips....they've just not done it to you (perhaps "yet"). It is important to keep tco up to date with changes in average hours of work.