NI Presbyterian mutual society, Short of funds for withdrawal?

Grrrandad

UN-BE-LIEV-ABLE -

Nothing Mr Carson has said over the last twelve months has given me any reason whatsoever for thinking I will ever see my savings returned.
I get really frustrated at his repetitive utterings about how concerned he is about the suffering of savers - he is basically sending out the same message as Arlene/Sammy and mates ' we have some difficult hurdles to overcome'. Give us a break!!

expat68

I think it is actually very easy for PCI. They give an unsecured loan to PMS, if there is any money left they get it back, if not they suffer with everyone else. This then avoids the issue of donating money. Though presumably every time they give money to a good cause they are donating money so I am not sure what the PCI General Assembly problem is other than having to put their very short arms into their very long and very full pockets. How is the multi million refurbishment of church house progressing by the way ?

BETRAYED

Treasurer wrote: »

Agree totally with Betrayed .
Interestingly , some months ago I wrote to Sammy Wilson as well as all the main people here and in London .
Sammy's office sent me a letter saying that the PMS was nothing to do with his office so my letter was being forwarded to the office of the First and Deputy First Minister !
Seems little has changed !
With assembly elections looming perhaps a dignified protest at Stormont
might be an option .
On a local note forum members might be interested to know that when our local Ards Council was asked to support the cause for justice for us PMS savers the motion was indeed passed with Kieran Mc Carthy and Joe Boyle the proposer / Seconder respectively .
I wrote to thank them and told them that it was my hope that if a similar situation occurred in their community they would have similar support from Unionist parties .

Don't worry. A protest at Stormont, Church House, and Administrator's office was considered.
In view of the the hazardous street conditions we have had to delay it.
You can be assured that a number of us are are keeping such a protest under review.

As regards the 'Caring Church' I am considering writing to my church session asking them to forward a request for me to address the next General Assembly to the Ballymena Presbytery.

Presbytery will have to consider my request and agree to forward it to Church House and the General Assembly Board so that they can consider giving me a hearing.

goodbyepci

http://www.jimallister.org/default.asp?blogID=2150

BETRAYED

Jim Allister

“The more emerges about this pitiful saga the clearer it is becoming that just as DETI bungled over the lack of regulation so the Executive has bungled the PMS negotiations, now compounded by their intention to sell the savers short so that they can recoup, with full interest, any temporary loan they make.

johnny.hilfiger

With reference to Jim Allister's analysis of what's on offer from government and interest to be charged I think back to the special assembly and the mealy mouthed response to agreeing in principle to the one million.

There appeared to be a lot of emphasis placed on how much interest creditors could get on their money that was owed to them and this seemed to disgruntle certain folk but how things have changed.

Seems like this all hangs on getting their hands on the assets of the PMS. Why would creditors hand this over for anything less than the book value and hope that after 10 years, after government loans and interest repaid they would "mop up what's left" Quote Dr. Carson

If the PMS assets are capable of paying interest on government loans they are capable of paying off the creditors.

There has been a lot of false dawns and false hope, let’s stick to the facts please.

Flinflon

Thanks, Johnny, and welcome to the forum.

ballyblack

BELFAST NEWSLETTER

Shape of PMS draft proposals revealed

Published Date: 15 December 2010


DRAFT budget proposals for the way forward on a Presbyterian Mutual Society deal were last night given to the News Letter.
The mutual suffered a run in 2008 and is now in administration, leaving some 9500 members facing their second Christmas without access to almost £300m in savings.

Stormont sources last night said their plan is to add a £25m executive loan to £200m unveiled by the chancellor in October, £175m of which
is a loan. This would give a £225m lifeline to PMS members, which would be supplemented by a contribution by the Presbyterian Church, which the executive hopes will be increased from £1m to £5m.

It is understood Finance Minister Sammy Wilson's budget should contain two paragraphs on the PMS; "The spending review outcome of Northern Ireland contains some additional provision for the resolution of this difficult issue," a draft said.

"An increase in our RRI (Reinvestment and Reform Initiative borrowings from the Treasury] of £175m and the allocation of £25m current expenditures, both on a one off basis.

"To top these sums up to the amounts needed to deliver on the package developed by the PMS Working Group, the executive is required to
commit £25m from current expenditure in years 2011-12 to be recovered from the administrator in later years and my draft budget proposals
contain such a proposed allocation."

Sources last night said that the aim was still to give those savers with less than £20,000 all their money back. However there was little optimism that any money from the package would reach savers' pockets before the May elections, even through the Treasury has made its £200m available from a month before they take place.

The reason given is expected delays in getting state aid approval in Brussels. However former MEP Jim Allister has gone on record to
say he is puzzled by such claims, saying there is a special fast-track process in Brussels which has been used before in the UK banking crisis.

Last week Finance Minister Sammy Wilson said the exact details of the PMS rescue plan must be approved by the executive, the assembly, the EU, and PMS creditors and members.

Alliance MLA Chris Lyttle had asked Mr Wilson if the UK government and Northern Ireland PMS contributions would be treated as "assistance" or loans which have to be repaid.

Mr Wilson answered that the £25m each from the UK government and executive would go to a Mutual Access Fund for smaller PMS savers.

"Over time our hope is that the PMS assets will recover suffciently for the Access Fund to be repaid and to allow everyone to recover
their money in full," Mr Wilson said.

"However this cannot be guaranteed. After repaying the £175m loan any surplus at the end of the ten year loan workout period would frstly be used to repay the cost of the Access Fund. After this any remaining surplus would be available for distribution to PMS creditors and members."

Meanwhile, it is understood that the Presbyterian Church is still seeking guidance as to whether it, as a charitable organisation,
is legally permitted to make a contribution to the PMS Mutual Access Fund, which it sees as a commercial entity.

warmhands.coldheart

ballyblack wrote: »

BELFAST NEWSLETTER

Shape of PMS draft proposals revealed

Published Date: 15 December 2010
"Meanwhile, it is understood that the Presbyterian Church is still seeking guidance as to whether it, as a charitable organisation,
is legally permitted to make a contribution to the PMS Mutual Access Fund, which it sees as a commercial entity".

Never mind "Legality"... they have a bl**dy moral duty considering they never had a problem advertising and recommending the PMS to their congregations... wouldn't it be convenient that due to "technical legalities" that they couldn't contribute any money!!

Excap123

With respect to the News Letter, what exactly is the new information in their latest story. Haven't we been told all this before? £225m to be lent to the Administrator plus some contribution from the church (£1m agreed already) to get funds more quickly to PMS members and creditors, the Administrator to wind down the PMS affairs over time as asset values recover (hopefully), pay back capital and interest to the government and then divi up what's left as a deferred payment to creditors. Money not available until next financial year starting next April. All in all it's a 'result' compared either to a fire sale via liquidation or a long drawn out ten year drip feed of funds to savers.