NI Presbyterian mutual society, Short of funds for withdrawal?

PCI.U.O.Me

Do we laugh or do we cry? If this report is true, I've just one thing to say to PCI.....CATCH YOURSELVES ON!!!

goodbyepci

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/pms-savers-furious-at-42m-hq-renovations-14915975.html

Lester_F

I saw this man on the news last night speaking on behalf of a PMS Savers Coalition. Can anybody provide me with information on this organisation?

Flinflon

Riley is former secretary and press officer for the coalition and made that point very clear to the reporter. If he was identified as anything other than a saver, the information was incorrect. He does not speak for the coalition
The coalition itself was set up informally, in June of 2009, among about eight savers. It never claimed to speak for all savers.:)

crazymess

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/Revised-rescue-plan-for-PMS.6482893.jp

serpico

It amazes me that the British government is even lifting a finger to help what was no more and no less than a private members club that discriminated on religious grounds amd prohibited jews, muslims catholics, anglicans, agnostics and anyone who was not a mrember of the PCI from investing, but The Presbyterians now want British taxpayers of all denominations to bail them out. Is this not the same as Madoffs investment scheme that excluded all but members ofd New Yorks wealthist Jewish community.

This was an unregulated private members club that was probably illegal with no authority to conduct its business in the way it did and speculated and gambled on the property market pyramid bubble and it is no differnt from the Tulip and South Sea bubbles.that burst, what kind of muppets were handing out dodgy loans to speculators for building land at £1/1.5M an acre for land that was only worth £500K, they gambled and lost.

Now you expext the British taxpayers of all denominations to bail them out, yet you would not let us Hindus and Methodists have a punt with you during the good times.

This was an unregulated outfit not a bank or building society people answered the pulpit calls made by the PCi on the promise of big profits, they rolled the dice for profit and lost. When did Ministers of the PCI become Financial Adviders? No one is bailing out the private buyers who lost their homes and ended up bankcrupt in this crash, greed and speculation can be very dodgy, you win some you lose some and you wipe the egg of your face and get over it.

Don't see any of those who blew the money through their stupidity wrongdoingand possible illegal activity being asked to account for their actions.

There is a recession the UK has mind boggling bad debt even more than it owed the Marshall Plan after WW1 that took 60 years to pay back, the taxpayers gravy train has blown its boiler, the pot is empty.

Crhistianity is about faith in Jesus Christ not creating great wealth, if you want a hand out try the Vatican with the begging bowl they can't be short of a few quid. That Paisley fellas FPC outfit seems to me to be well minted as well. Must confess I don't no anything about Presbyterianism but I do know that Christianity is about charity and taking care of the poor and needy and not making shedloads of money so the they can live in luxury on the proceeds of the generosity of their congregations `

One cannot help but feel sorrow and great sympathy for the elderly and financially nieve who lost everything in this debacle and placed their faith and trust in their chosen Church. Those responsible should be brought to account and answer for their actions.

Seems a bit thick skinned to me spending £8M tarting up a building that looks in preety good nick when those who have paid into the church probably all or most of their lives are in dire trouble.

Lester_F

Flinflon wrote: »

Riley is former secretary and press officer for the coalition and made that point very clear to the reporter. If he was identified as anything other than a saver, the information was incorrect. He does not speak for the coalition
The coalition itself was set up informally, in June of 2009, among about eight savers. It never claimed to speak for all savers.:)

On the news report that I watched, Mr. Riley was not broadcast as saying that he was the former secretary and press officer of the PMS Savers Coalition. It was made clear by the news programme that he was speaking on behalf of the PMS Savers Coalition.

Has he fallen out of favour with the PMS Savers Coalition? Who are they?

loganjh

http://www.staffordcarson.com/2010/08/church-house-refurbishment/

Toastandbutter

serpico wrote: »

It amazes me that the British government is even lifting a finger to help what was no more and no less than a private members club that discriminated on religious grounds amd prohibited jews, muslims catholics, anglicans, agnostics and anyone who was not a mrember of the PCI from investing, but The Presbyterians now want British taxpayers of all denominations to bail them out. Is this not the same as Madoffs investment scheme that excluded all but members ofd New Yorks wealthist Jewish community.

This was an unregulated private members club that was probably illegal with no authority to conduct its business in the way it did and speculated and gambled on the property market pyramid bubble and it is no differnt from the Tulip and South Sea bubbles.that burst, what kind of muppets were handing out dodgy loans to speculators for building land at £1/1.5M an acre for land that was only worth £500K, they gambled and lost.

Now you expext the British taxpayers of all denominations to bail them out, yet you would not let us Hindus and Methodists have a punt with you during the good times.

This was an unregulated outfit not a bank or building society people answered the pulpit calls made by the PCi on the promise of big profits, they rolled the dice for profit and lost. When did Ministers of the PCI become Financial Adviders? No one is bailing out the private buyers who lost their homes and ended up bankcrupt in this crash, greed and speculation can be very dodgy, you win some you lose some and you wipe the egg of your face and get over it.

Don't see any of those who blew the money through their stupidity wrongdoingand possible illegal activity being asked to account for their actions.

There is a recession the UK has mind boggling bad debt even more than it owed the Marshall Plan after WW1 that took 60 years to pay back, the taxpayers gravy train has blown its boiler, the pot is empty.

Crhistianity is about faith in Jesus Christ not creating great wealth, if you want a hand out try the Vatican with the begging bowl they can't be short of a few quid. That Paisley fellas FPC outfit seems to me to be well minted as well. Must confess I don't no anything about Presbyterianism but I do know that Christianity is about charity and taking care of the poor and needy and not making shedloads of money so the they can live in luxury on the proceeds of the generosity of their congregations `

One cannot help but feel sorrow and great sympathy for the elderly and financially nieve who lost everything in this debacle and placed their faith and trust in their chosen Church. Those responsible should be brought to account and answer for their actions.

Seems a bit thick skinned to me spending £8M tarting up a building that looks in preety good nick when those who have paid into the church probably all or most of their lives are in dire trouble.

---

---

---

Thanks Serpico

The Treasury Select Committee investigation into this fiasco found the PMS members were totally innocent victims of a fatal regulatory gap;-

Chairman John McFall told the government:

"...it is clear in the case of the PMS there was a fatal regulatory gap, which no lay person could reasonably have identified. Ministerial Working Group must report swiftly to ensure that MS members do not suffer unduly. We are not prescriptive about what solution is best; it is however clear that a remedy must be found.”
http://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-archive/treasury-committee/tc0910pn22/


As for the suggestion that the Presbyterians were being greedy etc. I can't speak with authority about the whole situation, but I certainly know that the PMS was used by many many churches to create buildings and facilities which have greatly enriched their communities - and not just for Presbyterians. For example my wife is not Presbyterian and runs clubs for struggling mothers with no church connections, using Presbyterian church halls.

I know the same church runs many youth organisations and summer schemes which are used by many people from the community who have no church connections.

It has also become clear that many other types of international charities within the church have lost access to their money in the PMS. These charities do not only serve presbyterians.

So please reconsider your suggestion that this was simply a private club to create wealth. I doubt you have any idea of the scale of local and international community services that the Presbyeterian Church in Ireland does.

Ordinary PMS members did not invest speculatively/gamble with their money; the shares they bought were completely fixed in value and could not rise or fall; their money was in no way linked to the stock market.

Why do you feel it so necessary to judge PMS members so harshly? What is your interest in this matter?

sincerely
TB

Toastandbutter

Owen Paterson has said;-

1) The hardship fund proposal is no more and an alternative is being worked on.

2) That takeover talks continue with banks for a commercial solution, which is the preferred solution.

3) That HM Treasury will support any prospective takeover (...dont think I have that before from HMT).

*Sounds* positive.... October will tell!

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/Revised-rescue-plan-for-PMS.6482893.jp