NI Presbyterian mutual society, Short of funds for withdrawal?

ballyblack

http://www.staffordcarson.com/2010/07/the-prime-ministers-pledge/

goodbyepci

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/columnists/alf-mccreary/a-moment-for-churches-to-reflect-on-a-turbulent-year-14889188.html

BETRAYED

I attended a very successful conference in Trinity College Dublin last Saturday organised by The Co-Operative Forum (N.I.) Ltd. (Erskine Holmes and his staff in Belfast)
I found all the speakers and panelists interesting and informative.
The session on Co-Operatives and Mutuals in the Devolved Administrations was particularly interesting.
Excellent that they had representative speakers from the Welsh Assembly and the Scottish Parliament including the Westminster MP Cathy Jamieson (Kilmarnock and Loudoun). For being such a young MP she has a very impressive record in the Scottish Assembly and at Westminster.
After my question, just before lunch, about banking services and opportunities for mutual sector finance in relation to community development I was taken aback by four or five people approaching me over lunch on the subject.
Whilst I did not want to raise the problem of PMS specifically, in conference, I was delighted that it was raised.
Perhaps my greatest surprise of the day was to learn that speaker Mark Bailey, President of The Irish League of Credit Unions is a member of Lucan Presbyterian Church Dublin and has himself funds in PMS.
He told me that when the PMS situation arose the Irish Federation of Credit Unions wrote to PMS, I presume offering advice and wrote again offering loans to those affected. It did not surprise me that neither letter was answered.
Seems to me that the majority of PMS directors, hierarchy of PCI , the administrator and lobbyists whom they support as well as DETI were only focused on a payout from Government and not some form of salvage or repair within the Mutual sector.
From the day of going into administration I and others have campaigned for a Creditors' committee.
The administrator kept telling me it would serve no useful purpose and said, "I could not tell them anymore that I can tell you".
In a recent press report the administrator stated that in relation to the Creditors' Committee , " I will refer to them as a sounding board on the future of the Society".
Up until now he has told me PMS is insolvent, and gave me the impression that PMS had no future.
Could it be a case of 'The road to Damascus is sometimes a very long one.'

Lester_F

Betrayed has posted a very interesting piece. I would be interested to hear Mark Bailey's take on the rise and fall of the PMS. I have also noted that when friends south of the border offered to assist they were ignored.

Administration has been a disaster for PMS shareholders. We could not have lost more of our savings in any other circumstances. We have lost all of our PMS savings. It saddens me that in the almost 2 years since we were refused access to our savings, I estimate that between 5 % and 7% of our number have died.

Creditors beware. You are not home and dry yet. You are not certain of all your savings back in time. When the protection of Administration is removed the scavengers of the Howie "Christian" Charitable Trust will continue to aggressively assert their self interest. As previously demonstrated, they will not be satisfied with a shared loss. Nor, I believe will they be satisfied with a delayed return.

goodbyepci

http://www.general-election-2010.co.uk/uk-party-political-news/presbyterian-mutual-society?cid=2747

BETRAYED

Posted by Isobel McFerran on Stafford Carson's blog 27 July


WE are running around in circles but going no where . It would appear that sadly we have to treat this money as lost. Presbyterianism has let us down. WE did not squander our money. WE might as well have as those we entrusted it to did. It is time that those who lent this money were brought to account. This appears to be secret.I do know that many Presbyterian ministers lost their retirement lump sums by investing where they thought it was safe.I am not talking about a little money but on Behalf of the Following.
1. SElf - £13640
2/FAther in law - £19,000 aged almost 93 and pretty infirm
3/ Friend - £5000 - Looking after a mother of 90
4/ Grandson - £3000 Had to get through university without this which was saved for this purpose
5/ Grand-daughter £3000 - One year completed at University-This would have been useful
Total £43,640.
Yet we have the sad situation of ministers still holding on to their present pension scheme which the churches cannot afford to fund.If this is christianity where do we go to now.
A disappointed Presbyterian.

totallyletdown

I have joined the rest of you in ceasing to contribute to PCI

The ministers have made it loud and clear to me that they put themselves and their love of their rich lifestyles before anyone or anything else. What would Jesus think of PCI today i wonder :-(

PCI.U.O.Me

Thanks to all the good folks on this forum who have put in so much effort on behalf of the casualties of this ungodly mess.

I'm a bit at the blunt end of technology, but I feel I should throw my two penny worth into this debate. I've adopted the same tactic as totallyletdown and others on this forum and if enough of us do something similar, I suggest we have potentially more clout than we think. One word of caution though, don't stop paying completely, they'll remove you from the 'books', pay 2 or 3 pounds per year and that I'll be enough. Give your offering to a charity or a good cause of your choice, at least you can decide where it's spent.

Hit their pocket, it's really the only leverage we have.

BETRAYED

PCI.U.O.Me wrote: »

Thanks to all the good folks on this forum who have put in so much effort on behalf of the casualties of this ungodly mess.

I'm a bit at the blunt end of technology, but I feel I should throw my two penny worth into this debate. I've adopted the same tactic as totallyletdown and others on this forum and if enough of us do something similar, I suggest we have potentially more clout than we think. One word of caution though, don't stop paying completely, they'll remove you from the 'books', pay 2 or 3 pounds per year and that I'll be enough. Give your offering to a charity or a good cause of your choice, at least you can decide where it's spent.

Hit their pocket, it's really the only leverage we have.

Great contribution. I am a 5th generation Presbyterian settler in Ireland from Scotland. I/ve stopped paying into my congregation. I shall resume contributing when this matter is resolved.
All I want is the truth. And I believe when when a creditors' committe is set up ' the truth will out'.

no_more_f.w.o

PCI.U.O.Me wrote: »

Thanks to all the good folks on this forum who have put in so much effort on behalf of the casualties of this ungodly mess.

I'm a bit at the blunt end of technology, but I feel I should throw my two penny worth into this debate. I've adopted the same tactic as totallyletdown and others on this forum and if enough of us do something similar, I suggest we have potentially more clout than we think. One word of caution though, don't stop paying completely, they'll remove you from the 'books', pay 2 or 3 pounds per year and that I'll be enough. Give your offering to a charity or a good cause of your choice, at least you can decide where it's spent.

Hit their pocket, it's really the only leverage we have.

I would suggest you can stop paying completely, because if they do "remove you from the books" you will be adding to the increasing slide in PCI membership, and that will hit them in the pocket!


Read the financial report from the last Assembly
http://www.presbyterianireland.org/assembly/pdfs/Finance_and_Personnel.pdf
Expecially pages 292 to 295, numbers are going down and down and down
I wonder why?