NI Presbyterian mutual society, Short of funds for withdrawal?

HOPE

The government view is that we are investors as opposed to savers. My understanding is that there is no legal definition and it is open to interpretation. Once you lodged money with the PMS that was your ticket to become a shareholder Our interpretation is as good as theirs. My own view is that this was a stalling or blocking tactic because the PMS did not have the proper regulatory framework which was a government failure. Personally I am no longer concerned about this because the PM has stepped in on moral grounds and set up the working group to find a satisfactory resolution so it appears that it is no longer a stumbling block.

expat68

Toastandbutter wrote: »

is there a definition of PMS "shareholder" anywhere which challenges the Govt view?

Interesting reading in the context of building societies - turns out I am a shareholder or member of the Nationwide and not a depositor or saver. Also read the section in bold - again seems to reinforce that the Industrial and Provident Society legislation was lagging behind what was happening elsewhere. Doesnt seem so unlikely now that several Building Societies have failed.

http://www.bsa.org.uk/consumer/factsheets/100007.htm

The Difference Between a Depositor and a Shareholder
People and institutions investing in building societies can be divided into two categories - the depositor and the investing member (or shareholder). Depositors are not members of the society and have no say in its running.
Shareholders, as members, have the right to receive information on the activity of the society, including the summary financial statement, and notification of the annual general meeting and any special general meeting. Shareholders can vote in elections for the board of directors, attend annual general and other meetings and, providing the correct procedures are followed, propose motions or stand for election themselves.
Where there are joint holders of a share account, only the first-named account holder is entitled to all of the members' rights described above.
Depositors are not members of the society and have few of the rights of shareholders. Depositors for example, need not be notified of the annual general meeting as they are not entitled to attend that meeting or vote on matters under consideration. Also depositors are not automatically sent a copy of the summary financial statement, although generally copies of this document are available from societies on request.
In theoretical terms depositors enjoy a greater level of security than shareholders, although in practical terms this distinction is largely irrelevant. In the extremely unlikely event of a building society becoming insolvent, depositors will receive all of their money back before any distribution is made to shareholders. If there is a shortfall of funds shareholders will bear this shortfall rather than depositors.
A recent Act of Parliament - the Building Societies (Funding) and Mutual Societies (Transfers) Act 2007 - could change this arrangement. That Act allows for secondary legislation to be passed by Parliament that would result in funds held by shareholders and depositors ranking equally in the unlikely event of insolvency. More information can be found by going to the page on this site covering Building Society Legislation.

totallyletdown

BETRAYED wrote: »

This group meets informally and shares information which those attending have. Though this last meeting was held in Templepatrick previous meetings were in Shore Street Presbyterian Church premises in Donaghadee. The next meeting is to be held there on the first Tuesday in August at 8.00PM.
Though I am from Co. Antrim I have always been made very welcome.

Why was a group from donaghadee holding a meeting in templepatrick ?
I am from the jorandstown area and would like to have attended. Will there be a meeting in this direction again ?

Lester_F

I appreciate that the Administator would not want to and maybe should not speaking to Lobbying groups representing shareholders.

However, Directors have spoken publically on the issue at the General Assembly and to other groups. I suppose they knew they would get a sympathetic hearing at the General Assembly.

"Hope" are you a Director or just a minister who knows some of the directors?

HOPE

Lester_F wrote: »

I appreciate that the Administator would not want to and maybe should not speaking to Lobbying groups representing shareholders.

However, Directors have spoken publically on the issue at the General Assembly and to other groups. I suppose they knew they would get a sympathetic hearing at the General Assembly.

"Hope" are you a Director or just a minister who knows some of the directors?

Neither a minister or a Director nor do I know any of the Directors

BETRAYED

HOPE wrote: »

In reality as the PMS is in administration and therefore under judicial consideration the Directors are prohibited from public discussion and therefore cannot discuss the issue whether they may want to or not. The same rule applies to the Administrator and my understanding is that it is not within his legal remit to put forward or discuss proposals. This responsibility will lie with the working party who are tasked to find a satisfactory resolution.

The administrator is operating under the Insolvency (Northern Ireland ) Order 1989. He also has to conform to The European Regulation on Insolvency
Proceedings.
In the penultimate paragraph of his letter to members on 1st. May 2009 he states
"While it is not the Administrator's role to actively lobby government for assistance, I am doing everything I can to assist those who are making representation to them"...............

That is not what I and others have experienced.
If he can't talk to us or let us put suggestions to him how can he talk to the two big banks who want our loan book and 9,500 new potential customer accounts.
With proper regulatory legislation and guarantees and the loyalty of understanding mutual members who would still be happy to keep their funds in the Society PMS can be salvaged.
Maybe some of the clergy could explain to their flock what a mutual society is and explain to them how the directors messed it up.
By the way the administrator has put 13 houses in a county Antrim village on the market at less than half the price they were advertised for a year ago................has the 'Fire Sale' started?

Dr._Who_2

Every PMS saver should receive a letter from the Moderator, Dr. Carson, either today or tomorrow. I have just received an e-mail copy of it (am in a position to receive these things but have no other connection with PMS other than being a saver).
The purpose of this letter is to update everone on what has happened since the Assembly. I think it is a helpful letter - one paragraph states "We believe the primary goal of any solution is to see the totality of money belonging to those who placed their savings in the PMS is secured..."
It's unfortunate that updates like this couldn't have been presented earlier in all of this - the Administrator has facilitiated the mailing of this letter to us at the expense of PCI. Why couldn't this have been done earlier?
You'll notice that the Moderator describes us as "savers" and not "investors" - this seems to be a problem for some people who cannot grasp the idea that we are SAVERS with PMS.

HOPE

Dr._Who wrote: »

Every PMS saver should receive a letter from the Moderator, Dr. Carson, either today or tomorrow. I have just received an e-mail copy of it (am in a position to receive these things but have no other connection with PMS other than being a saver).
The purpose of this letter is to update everone on what has happened since the Assembly. I think it is a helpful letter - one paragraph states "We believe the primary goal of any solution is to see the totality of money belonging to those who placed their savings in the PMS is secured..."
It's unfortunate that updates like this couldn't have been presented earlier in all of this - the Administrator has facilitiated the mailing of this letter to us at the expense of PCI. Why couldn't this have been done earlier?
You'll notice that the Moderator describes us as "savers" and not "investors" - this seems to be a problem for some people who cannot grasp the idea that we are SAVERS with PMS.

Letter received. It does not include the paragraph re the primary goal of seeing the totatality of money secured but I am assuming they are just being careful.

OldJohn

HOPE wrote: »

Letter received. It does not include the paragraph re the primary goal of seeing the totatality of money secured but I am assuming they are just being careful.

I have received the same letter, it has the paragraph quoted near the top of page two.

HOPE

OldJohn wrote: »

I have received the same letter, it has the paragraph quoted near the top of page two.

I only seem to have the first page - must inquire.