NI Presbyterian mutual society, Short of funds for withdrawal?

goodbyepci

re the "investment" or "savings" debate

Here is an account called an "investment" account which is obviously a passbook based - do it all in the Post Office branch - £1 in - £1 out with interest - savings account.

Confusing isn't it?
http://www.nsandi.com/products/invac/index.jsp

should someone tell Shaun Woodward?

Bannside_2

A small article in today's Belfast Telegraph

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/pm-urged-to-act-over-collapse-of-presbyterian-mutual-society-14373506.html

goodbyepci

http://www.nwipp-newspapers.com/SC/free/301814879024527.php

brick

goodbyepci wrote: »

re the "investment" or "savings" debate

Here is an account called an "investment" account which is obviously a passbook based - do it all in the Post Office branch - £1 in - £1 out with interest - savings account.

Confusing isn't it?
http://www.nsandi.com/products/invac/index.jsp

should someone tell Shaun Woodward?

As I think we all realise, Shaun's really on a loser with that argument.
The terms are used loosely and interchangeably by lots of high street financial institutions.

e.g. I am just after activating an "e-savings plus" savings account linked to my Nationwide current account, and confirmation says:-

"Thank you for investing. You will be able to view your new e-Savings Plus account through Internet Banking within the next 5 days."

i.e. they thank me for making an "investment" (danger/alarm according to Shaun) into a "savings" account, when I know - just like PMS deposits - it is indeed instant access savings.

PS
Complete aside.
For any Nationwide customers among you, "e-savings plus" is now the slightly better option than "e-savings" (which used to be a fair enough lazy option for instant access savings).
"e-savings" has had its interest rate quietly (alas, way of the world) downgraded to a pittance, with new "e-savings plus" paying slightly more - provided you don't withdraw more than 3 times per year.

joylikes2shop

''John McFall, chairman of the powerful Treasury Select Committee in the House of Commons, wrote to Mr Brown urging action.
The fellow Scottish Labour MP and former Northern Ireland minister said his committee had been made particularly aware of the impact of the collapse on members when it visited Belfast in the spring and he had taken an interest in their plight ever since.

He wrote: "I understand the resolution is complicated, dependent on many external issues such as the speed and extent of recovery of the property market, the point at which assets are realised, and whether there will be any assistance from the Government."

However, he said: "I would ask that you urgently consider taking further action in this area, working with the Northern Ireland Executive and the Presbyterian Church to find a fair and expedient resolution of this issue."

Mr McFall said the Treasury Committee would continue to monitor developments closely and may return to the issue in the autumn

I have copied the above information from the following website...
http://www.u.tv/News/PM-urged-to-act-over-PMS-collapse/3b2239de-f5ef-49b4-a750-d50730d8ae2a

The following is a comment which was left on the website in response to the above information...

At 18:22 on 30 June 2009, Deaglan Bhreathnach wrote:

Surely the investors/savers in PMS must realise that when you invest money in the stock market, there will always be the chance of collapse. I would not like to see preferential treatment for the PMS, what about the people losing their homes?

Yet another person who believed that SAVERS in the PMS were ''investing in the stock market'':mad: ... I would challange these 'outsiders' to point out exactly where in the stockmarket one would find/have found the 'share price' for PMS shares.........???

freddiemae

As a non member of PMS could I ask a question please. If you went to deposit say 1000 pounds did this get marked in a pass book or did you get a share certificate for it? If you then went again with another 1000 pounds did you get it marked again in a passbook or get another share certificate?
I think this was mentioned before but can't find it. If it is a share certificate then this is where the public would be confused about it. Govt ministers calling it shares doesn't help the public either to understand the problem. Although this is not an official lobby group on here I think the 200,000 views proves that it is a lifeline of information to many.

ballyblack

Radio Ulster this morning

John McFall interview

fast forward 1 hour 7 minutes into show

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00lh214/Good_Morning_Ulster_01_07_2009/

.

BETRAYED

freddiemae wrote: »

As a non member of PMS could I ask a question please. If you went to deposit say 1000 pounds did this get marked in a pass book or did you get a share certificate for it? If you then went again with another 1000 pounds did you get it marked again in a passbook or get another share certificate?
I think this was mentioned before but can't find it. If it is a share certificate then this is where the public would be confused about it. Govt ministers calling it shares doesn't help the public either to understand the problem. Although this is not an official lobby group on here I think the 200,000 views proves that it is a lifeline of information to many.

Rule Book PMS
Section 3: Shares
No member shall hold less than one share of one hundred pounds but no member shall have or claim any interest in shares of the Society exceeding that permitted from time to time under the Industrial and Provident Societies Act. (N.I) 1969.

At present that amount is 200 shares ie £20,000
For amounts up to 20k you got a "share certificate".
For amounts above 20K you got a share certificate for 20K and for the amount above that you got a "Loan Certificate".
As I understand it PMS shares are treated like co-operative shares. They cannot be dealt in or transferred to anybody at any value other than the purchase price even after 50 years.
Here is the problem now. In a Mutual Society or Co-Operative a member no matter how many shares he holds has only one vote. (one share or 200 shares)
Because we are in administration the people who have first call on whatever funds are available after say winding-up are the creditors not the shareholders.
Somebody can correct me if I am wrong here.
When the creditors have a meeting under ordinary company legislation, under which we are at present their vote is " Value voting" That is the biggest creditor has the most votes.
Shareholders may not even be able to attend a Creditors' Meeting.
If this b----y mess is not sorted out by Stormont and the British Treasury
you ain't seen nothing yet.

PS I think it will be sorted out.

Lester_F

Some people are prepared to put their trust in the Government to sort it out. I don't.

The PMS is too far down the Government's list of priorities.

Even if the Government comes to the rescue there will be issues that they cannot sort out.

These include the deaths of shareholders during this crisis, damaged relationships, and staff made redundant. Not to mention the postmortem which will reveal many details regarding the run on the PMS.

HOPE

I have not posted before but been following the thread.

Betrayed speaks a lot of sense. The PM has not set up a working group for nothing and accordng to the PM work has already begun. There are a number of ways the PMS issue could be resolved so let's be patient and start showing some positivity for a change.