NI Presbyterian mutual society, Short of funds for withdrawal?

Dr._Who_2

You will all have seen the front page of the Newsletter today, that the PM has agreed to meet with the First Minister & other Stormont Ministers to consider a rescue package for PMS - this is NO reason to be complacement. A meeting doesn't mean that action will result - both PCI and PMS investors need to make sure that the PM, the Treasury, DETI etc., etc understand the strength of feeling, that, even if someone, somewhere, was doing something outside the law that wasn't the fault of PMS savers.
What do PMS investors want? What started the ill feeling against PCI? It was our failure as a Church to recognise the very real links between the two organisations - and then to put in place better organisation to get something done!! I've said it before and I'll say it again - as a Church body we were reacting to events rather than being proactive - there was time and opportunity to be proactive. Perhaps the PMS Directors came to PCI looking for help themselves and got the "nothing to do with us" reaction.
Let me draw a parallel - if you have a BB Company in your Church it is, in fact, a seperate legal entity, own BB insurance etc., etc - but the Kirk Session has responsibility for selecting and appointing Officers and should the Company get into financial difficulty the Congregational Committee has a responsibility to help. [I discovered this because I had to consult PCI brokers about insurance]
Two seperate legal entities yet inextricably linked - same, I feel, with PCI/PMS.

expat68

http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/Brown-agrees-to-PMS-meeting.5310689.jp

sickasaparrot

You may have seen the front page of the Newsletter this morning where Gordon Brown has agreed to a meeting on PMS before the Treasury report is completed. This is encouraging, HOWEVER it does not guarantee a rescue package. THEREFORE it is EXTREMELY IMPORTANT that pressure is maintained on our politicians to find a solution to the PMS crisis. With this in mind the Lobby Group have asked that letters/ emails are sent to :-
Arlene Foster MLA – DETI [EMAIL="arlene.foster@niassembly.gov.uk"]arlene.foster@niassembly.gov.uk[/EMAIL]
Department of Enterprise, Trade and Investment Netherleigh Massey Avenue Belfast, BT4 2JP

---

Nigel Dodds MLA [EMAIL="ndodds@dup-belfast.co.uk"]ndodds@dup-belfast.co.uk[/EMAIL]

---

Questions need to be asked and answers demanded. Please consider raising the following points in your communication.

Why DETI did not ensure that the Annual Reports and Accounts sent to them by the PMS were not properly examined?
Why did the Registrar fail to observe that the PMS were not properly regulated?
What procedures were in place to ensure that there was adequate supervision and monitoring of this most important charge?
Why was the PMS permitted to operate so long as an unregulated financial service business and yet the Registrar failed to notice?
If the PMS had been properly regulated and the legislation brought into the line with the rest of the UK then we would have had access to the FSCS and would not be in this mess!!.
“ Risk capital” in letters from NIO and the Treasury is a fallacy and shows a lack of knowledge about how the PMS was run. - Another stalling tactic. HM Treasury review has taken far too long. What action has the NI Executive taken to speed it up?
Savers are tired of being told this is devolved and that is non devolved. We have had enough and demand action now.
It is evident that Government failed in the regulation of the PMS and it is time for both DETI and HMG to properly address the issue once and for all. Government is Government whether it be in Stormont or Westminster. It is one and the same.
Savers do not deserve to be treated unfairly and discriminated against in comparison with the rest of the UK and should not be penalised for failures by Government to "bridge the gap" in regulations.

sickasaparrot

Further to post 2494
Please also write to:
Office of First and Deputy First Minister
[EMAIL="peter.robinson.mp@btconnect.com"]peter.robinson.mp@btconnect.com[/EMAIL]

John McFall
[EMAIL="John.mcfall@blueyonder.co.uk"]John.mcfall@blueyonder.co.uk[/EMAIL]

Yvette Cooper :-
[EMAIL="Yvette.cooper@hm-treasury.gsi.gov.uk"]Yvette.cooper@hm-treasury.gsi.gov.uk[/EMAIL]

sickasaparrot

The lobby group has called for ALL Presbyterians to unite.

As the meeting with Gordon Brown and local politicans will be taking place mid June it is vital that emails / letters are written to the politicians again.

Please offer help to the elderly who do not have access to the internet or are unable to write their own letters.

Letters should continue to highlight PERSONAL CIRCUMSTANCES and include the hardship, stress, anxiety, discrimination and suffering this crisis is causing.

Despite the Government repeatedly declaring that no UK saver will lose out due to the economic downturn - PMS savers have not been helped. PMS is the ONLY UK financial institution not to have received help.

The Northern Ireland Office and the Treasury have received hundreds and hundreds of letters regarding PMS - the pressure must be maintained to back up our politicans when they meet the Prime Minister.

Letter writing is making a difference behind the scenes.

crazymess

Excellent news that that finally our Stormont Assembly have secured a meeting with Gordon Brown. Seven months from the date of Administration.

Very timely - close to both the European Elections and PCI General Assembly!

Maybe its also time for the DETI to explain why they didn't implement fully the Industrial and Providents Societies (NI) Order 2006. Especially points 3 and 4 - perhaps when sending your letters you might want to ask the question?

This Explanatory Memorandum refers to the Industrial and Provident Societies
(Northern Ireland) Order (NI 3).
1
INDUSTRIAL AND PROVIDENT SOCIETIES (NORTHERN IRELAND)
ORDER 2006
2006 No. 314 (N.I. 3)
______________________
EXPLANATORY MEMORANDUM
INTRODUCTION
1. The above Order is being made under the Northern Ireland Act 2000 and is subject to
affirmative resolution
2. This Explanatory Memorandum has been prepared by the Department of Enterprise,
Trade and Investment (“the Department”) in order to assist the reader in understanding
the Order. It does not form part of the Order.
BACKGROUND AND POLICY OBJECTIVES
3. The Order is intended to bring the legislation governing Industrial and Provident
Societies in Northern Ireland into line with the equivalent legislation in Great Britain
– in particular, the Co-Operative and Community Benefit Societies Act 2003.
4. The Industrial and Provident Societies (Northern Ireland) Order will form part of the
Department’s strategy to help Industrial and Provident Societies (I&P Societies) in
Northern Ireland to reach their full potential, by removing legal, regulatory and policy
barriers that may act as obstacles to their growth and development. The aim is to
create a supportive and enabling framework, ensuring that the needs of I&P Societies’
members are met, at the same time protecting their interests. By modernising key
policy areas, the Department intends to create a regulatory environment which will
encourage I&P Societies to maximise their contribution to social and economic
development in Northern Ireland.
5. The main purpose of the Order is to achieve the above mentioned objectives by
creating parity between I&P Societies legislation in Northern Ireland and Great
Britain. I&P Societies in GB are regulated by comparatively recent legislation, most
notably the Co-Operative and Community Benefit Societies Act 2003. In order to
avoid I&P Societies in Northern Ireland being left behind GB, this draft Order applies
many of the provisions of the recent GB legislation to NI legislation, amending the
appropriate sections of the Industrial and Provident Societies Act (Northern
Ireland)1969 and inserting new provisions where necessary.
CONSULTATION
6. A consultation paper was issued in May 2004, with subsequent focus groups being
held during June and July 2004. Consultees included all of the major I&P Societies in
Northern Ireland, as well as leaders of various I&P representative bodies. Other
government departments in Northern Ireland were also consulted, as were the
Financial Services Authority and HM Treasury. A further consultation paper,
This Explanatory Memorandum refers to the Industrial and Provident Societies
(Northern Ireland) Order (NI 3).
2
including the draft Order in Council, was issued in May 2005. No issues were
identified by these consultations.
OPTIONS CONSIDERED
7. Options were considered in relation to each proposal: registration of Societies; share
capital; protection of societies; protection of third parties; accounting and audit
matters, and insolvency arrangements. In each case, options included maintaining the
current position and introducing provisions to bring the regulation of Industrial and
Provident Societies in Northern Ireland into line with the parallel regulatory regime in
Great Britain. The provisions detailed below, under ‘Main Elements of the Order’,
represent the Department’s preferred options.
FINANCIAL EFFECTS OF THE ORDER
8. The Department has considered the potential financial effects of the Order, and has
concluded that there will be no financial effects on the I&P sector as a result of the
proposals contained therein.
HUMAN RIGHTS ISSUES
9. The provisions of the Order are compatible with the Convention on Human Rights.
EQUALITY IMPACT ASSESSMENT
10. A screening exercise has been carried out by the Department into the Equality impact
of the proposed Order. This exercise has concluded that a full Equality Impact
Assessment is unnecessary.
SUMMARY OF THE REGULATORY APPRAISAL
11. A screening exercise has been carried out by the Department into the regulatory
impact of the proposed Order. This exercise has concluded that a full Regulatory
Impact Assessment is unnecessary.
MAIN ELEMENTS OF THE ORDER
12. The Order consists of 11 Articles and 1 Schedule. Articles 1 and 2 are introductory.
Articles 3 to 7 make amendments to The Industrial and Provident Societies Act
(Northern Ireland) 1969 (the “principal Act”). Articles 8 to 10 make various
provisions relating to areas of I&P regulation under the Co-Operatives and
Community Benefit Societies Act 2003 which the Department wishes to apply to
regulation of I&P Societies in Northern Ireland. Article 11 makes the necessary
repeals to give effect to the provisions contained in Articles 3 to 10.
COMMENTARY ON ARTICLES
13. A summary of each article follows:

Article 3

places requirements on bodies wishing to register as Community Benefit Societies.

Article 4

defines the capacity of an I&P Society and the power of its committee to bind it.

Article 5

deals with the status of purported deeds, contracts and obligations entered into by

I&P Societies.

This Explanatory Memorandum refers to the Industrial and Provident Societies
(Northern Ireland) Order (NI 3).
3
Article 6

further clarifies the procedures for execution of deeds and other documents.

Article 7

makes provision for conversion into, or transfer of engagements to, a limited

company by an I&P Society.

Article 8

applies the Company Directors Disqualification (Northern Ireland) Order 2002 to

societies registered under the principal Act.

Article 9

enables the Department to restrict a society from using its assets for purpose other

than that which is of benefit to the community, or other uses as may be considered

appropriate under the rules and ethos of that particular society.
Article 10

enables the Department to make changes to I&P law to bring it into line with the

relevant sections of company law, as and when this becomes necessary for the good

governance of I&P societies. This article also sets out in detail the areas of I&P law, as
contained in the principal Act, which are to be exempted from this measure.
Article 11

repeals the statutory provisions listed in the Schedule.

Article 11 – Repeals

Article 11 repeals the sections of the principal Act as listed in the schedule.
The Schedule

repeals:

1. The Industrial and Provident Societies (Northern Ireland) Act 1969 (c.24) - in section 3 the

words “with a common seal and with”; in section 5(6) the words “engraven with legible
characters on its seal and”; section 5(7)(a) in its entirety.
2. The Companies Consolidation (Consequential Provisions) (Northern Ireland) Order 1986
(NI 9)-
In Part I of Schedule 1, the entry relating to section 1(2) of the Industrial and Provident
Societies Act (Northern Ireland) 1969 (c. 24).
COMMENCEMENT
Articles 1 and 2 of the Order shall come into operation on the 14

th day of March 2006.

The remaining provisions of the Order shall come into operation on such day or days as

the Department may by Order appoint.
This Explanatory Memorandum refers to the Industrial and Provident Societies

(Northern

joylikes2shop

There should be some PMS 'chat' on the Sunday Sequence program tomorrow...starts at 8.30am :eek:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/radioulster/sunday_sequence/

freddiemae

I am afraid I agree with Crazymess that this proposed meeting with Gordon Brown has come at a very opportune time to defuse a potentially embarassing time so close to the european elections and general assembly. It would appear to reassure the more timid Presbyterian that all will be grand if you just keep on waiting and hoping.

It won't be -- unless you take action and let the whole country know you will not take this lying down with "Welcome" written on your forehead. It is right to be angry not timid and self effacing. When Jesus was angry at people being cheated in the Temple by the money changers He didn't just quietly ask them to leave. I understand that he overturned the tables and showed just anger at cheats.

Good luck on Monday - I hope you have a good turnout and that some ministers search their consciences and speak up for the ones who cannot be heard because of church assembly rules.

totallyletdown

I don't want to spoil the party , but quite frankly i find it embarrassing that on the very saturday before the general assembly, the newsletter runs a front page story that may give some hope to savers in the PMS.

The govt will not be helping the PMS, this I know for a fact.......meeting or no meeting.

BETRAYED

[QUOTE=joylikes2shop;_POST No. 2491 For link to Will Crawley's Blog [/QUOTE]

I am posting on William Crawley's blog as "bluebadger123"

Crawley should have a good understanding of how this mess came about and the subsequent reaction by Church House.
If I am not mistaken, before starting in broadcasting, he served as assistant to Dr. McKelvey in Fisherwick Belfast and worked for a time in Fifth Avenue Church in New York.