NI Presbyterian mutual society, Short of funds for withdrawal?

readyforaction

Thanks Dr Who. Already making headway on PMS agent..will report definite information as it emerges.

Date of 2nd June is accurate for discussion of PMS. Info received from Church House several weeks ago.

Dr._Who_2

Now if you really want to get to grips with this here's what to do but this will take some work so be patient!!
Go to PCI website - click on "Available Resources": you should see there an icon for the Code - blue book with gold lettering "The Code" - click on this. This will open up the Code of PCI (you don't need to print it - if it did it would take a long time and a lot of paper!!) Look for a little search bar along the top - type in Board of Mission in Ireland and begin to search. You'll find a lot of mention of BMI at many places and you'll begin to wonder how many tentacles this particular octopus has!! You're looking for paragraph 280 (i) on page 98 which lists make-up of BMI membership - on the way Paragraph 269(i) on p.90 about the role of the Business Board in nominating ex-officio members might be of interest.
I just wonder, and it does scare me a bit - seeing as this is in the Code of the Church is this what might be called a "smoking gun"!! (The copy of the Code on the website is correct as of 2008 - mention of PMS Agent goes right back to 1984)

fivealive_2

joylikes2shop wrote: »

The Moderator conducted a closing act of worship ......
.....Thereafter he declared the Assembly to be dissolved and convened the next Stated General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church in Ireland to meet in Church House, Belfast, on Monday 1st June, 2009.


HAS THE DATE OF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY OFFICIALLY BEEN CHANGED TO TUESDAY 2ND JUNE OR WHERE DID WE GET THE DATE FROM ???

As far as I know, General Assembly lasts almost a week; Monday to Thursday in Church House, then on Saturday there is Youth Night and the Kid's Praise Party (the latter is held in Carnmoney Presbyterian church).!

fivealive_2

Dr._Who wrote: »

Now if you really want to get to grips with this here's what to do but this will take some work so be patient!!
Go to PCI website - click on "Available Resources": you should see there an icon for the Code - blue book with gold lettering "The Code" - click on this. This will open up the Code of PCI (you don't need to print it - if it did it would take a long time and a lot of paper!!) Look for a little search bar along the top - type in Board of Mission in Ireland and begin to search. You'll find a lot of mention of BMI at many places and you'll begin to wonder how many tentacles this particular octopus has!! You're looking for paragraph 280 (i) on page 98 which lists make-up of BMI membership - on the way Paragraph 269(i) on p.90 about the role of the Business Board in nominating ex-officio members might be of interest.
I just wonder, and it does scare me a bit - seeing as this is in the Code of the Church is this what might be called a "smoking gun"!! (The copy of the Code on the website is correct as of 2008 - mention of PMS Agent goes right back to 1984)

Never knew how to search a doc. like that before, thanks.
Certainly looks like Donald Watts and his advisors did not do their home-work before that awful Spotlight programme.

Dr._Who_2

Offically, the General Assembly opens on the Monday night with the address of the outgoing Moderator, Dr. Patton, and the Installation of the present Moderator-designate Dr. Carson. Business doesn't start until Tuesday morning although the Assembly Communion Service involves some time then - I suppose we could say that things don't really get going until Tuesday afternnon. Assembly finishes on Thursday supposedly at 5 p.m. although last year there was so much lapsed business that the Thursday night ran very late.
Each Board Report/item of business has a starting time - if the Report isn't finished by the time the next item is due then it goes into lapsed business and is fitted in at some other time. You can see that if you look at the daily minutes on the website. Reports and daily minutes are available on PCI website and should be coming up soon for 2009 - I know people who follow the proceedings using an internet enabled mobile.

Dr._Who_2

Just a thought before bedtime. Keep an eye on the PCI website General Assembly section for 2009 stuff beginning to appear: also keep an eye on 2009 Daily Minutes during Assembly week. The way this works is that there may be NO resolutions re PCI/PMS, to coin a phrase, in the main reports - any resolutions will be printed in Daily Minutes for members of Assembly but, hopefully, people will be able to access that online also. Those resolutions will be presented, discussed and voted on: I have heard talk of some resolutions already but we just don't know. I hope there will be some resolutions as it will make for a sterile and useless debate otherwise - and I hope it isn't just a case of "trotting out" what we have heard already!!

Dr._Who_2

Things like CMF (Central Ministry Fund), Retired Ministers Fund (RMF), Ministers Pension Scheme (MPS), Widows of Ministers Fund (WMF) along with General Assembly Incidental Fund are what are called "assessments" - every Congregation pays them and they are based on so many pence per pound of Ministerial Stipend. You should find the amounts your Congregation pays by way of assessments in your Church Financial Report - they should be listed there.
In the Assembly Reports 2008 (see website) you will also find them there under the Board of Finance and Personnel p.233 You can find these reports more easily by going to PCI website, click on "The General Assembly" which takes you to 2008 Assembly, then click on "Assembly Reports" and that will take you to a list - click on the Report you want to read and there you go. You can now read what your Minsiter & Rep. Elder received last year. Have fun - must go now and enjoy the sun!! Finance and Personnell will give you some idea of how money is raised from congregations.:D

Dr._Who_2

Just for everyone's info - United Appeal isn't an assessment - it's what is called a "Target of Honour". Each Congregation is set a "Target" figure by the local Presbytery - most congregations get the United Appeal money through offerings. Some fall short, others exceed their target figure - but, at the end of 2008, there was a substantial shortfall in United Appeal giving.
United Appeal funds the work of PCI at Home and Overseas - the total Target for PCI for 2009, which will be divided among congregations, is approx. £3 million - but, then, you can find those figures by looking at the Assembly Reports.

brick

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8040164.stm

Paid for by taxpayers, like us.

ordained

I have been following the threads over the past number of weeks and find many of the comments intresting and in some cases enlighting. Any resonable person, even a judge, must accept that the case has been proven in that the PCI and PMS are INEXTRICABLY linked!! However there is no point in tying an ocean liner to a blade of grass on the bank !!
What assets do the PCI have ? Church House and a few other properties but little money and what money it has is our money anyway. Indeed all the assets of PCI, large or small, already belong to us, the people of the Presbyterian Church. We are the PCI and ofcourse we are the PMS, legal entity or not.

Never the less the PCI, (ie.you & I )have a responsibility,as christians, to offer all we have to relieve the sufferings of others. Not the "Wash my hands" that has been offered by a pinnacle of the church body.

Where do we look for succour ? In my opinion we must indentify a party or parties with recoverable assets to satisfy the gap in the PMS funds. Obviously the directors who have oversteped their brief and or the Gov.department who failed to excerise due dilligence as to the activities of the PMS. These must be prime targets.

Hope reigns eternal !!,