NI Presbyterian mutual society, Short of funds for withdrawal?

Nomad25

Sounds like he is trying to consolidate as much cash as he can. Surprised it has taken him this long.

crazymess

Many have suggested to the powers that be in Church House about seeking out a loan - interest free from Government over many many years.

They surely could also in theory "BORROW FROM THE CURRENT INVESTMENT FUND" - and pay that portion back over years. Church House say they cannot use the money in the Investment Fund - as it belongs to congregations - HAVE THEY FORGOTTEN ABOUT THE £40 MILLION (BELONGING TO CONGREGATIONS FROZEN/LOST IN THE PMS???)


Where does Church House get its income from? Answer the PEWS - so surely if we can find some way of paying everyone back NOW - then in time - through the pews - Church House can pay the loan back.

brick

crazymess wrote: »

Many have suggested to the powers that be in Church House about seeking out a loan - interest free from Government over many many years.

...surely if we can find some way of paying everyone back NOW - then in time - through the pews - Church House can pay the loan back.

I still reckon fair and equitable government dictates that PMS should attract support measures akin to other UK financial institutions.
Then, if necessary, we would have such discussions about any remaining shortfall.
But given no indication of imminent government support to us Irish UK citizens, I will chip in.

How likely would Joe Presby Public (JPP) be to contribute money to offering plate week after week knowing that it was being used to pay off a loan that had been acquired to pay back "the PMS savers"?

I would need to get my head round that, but I imagine it might be at odds with the sort of things people perceive their offerings are used for.
Probably yes from the point of view of assisting those in genuine need, but maybe questionable for those not in real need?

Understand the broad principle, but would need some sort of feel for hard facts and figures, and how much JPP was being asked to contribute week after week for how long.

Flip side is, I guess, if it is everyone's church, and the church has a big problem, then it is everyone's big problem? (...as alluded to by, I think, John Dunlop?)
It ain't easy.

Nomad25

How likely would Joe Presby Public (JPP) be to contribute money to offering plate week after week knowing that it was being used to pay off a loan that had been acquired to pay back "the PMS savers"?

A very good question - given human nature and all that.

crazymess

Good point Brick -

Government bail-out is the only clean answer to all of this!!!
Hope this happens soon.

But on the PCI - General Assembly - surely this is affecting so many people within the Church - congregations etc = apparently £40 million in PMS - bible clubs, GB and BB, Choirs, Presbyterian Women - also individuals - many many have their money tied up and involved.


Wonder does General Assembly/PCI/Church House have insurance????????????????????????

fivealive_2

totallyletdown wrote: »

Hello all
I have been looking at this site since the beginning and have been too nervous to post as I always thought the chuch would help me out.

I honestly feel that the full force of the anger and grief of PMS investors has not yet been felt/seen. The number/content of recent posts from Newbies suggests to me that there are still quite a few PMS investors out there who up till now still believed that their church would ensure that this story had a happy ending. As 6 weeks becomes 6 months and when 6 months becomes 1 year and people still do not have access to their money I think that more and more investors will come out of denial/naivety and they are going to need a lot of help and support.
Spare a thought too for the Ministers who have their life savings in the PMS, especially those near retirement age (they didn't ALL lift their money in October). Imagine how they must be feeling, having devoted most of their working lives to serving their Church and their congregations?

Dr._Who_2

Not buy to let - retirement homes, some of them ministers who need to make provision for the future: terms of call committs them to living in "tied cottage" but they need to make provision. Naturally, they will let the property to help pay the mortgage.
The buy to let trade is different - people buy a number of properties simply to make money - to be honest I don't think it was within the remit of PMS to be lending large sums of money for such things. I always understand that you had to say what you wanted the loan for - I have had loans from PMS but always within my means to repay.
PMS should NOT have been lending millions to property developers as this falls into what I would call speculation - sorry, you property developers out there!! You've been hit hard - but didn't you think that the bubble might one day burst!! Should have thought PMS lending policy would be cautious, based on the ability of the individual to repay. If PMS had too much money about them they should have put it in the Nationwide!!

Dr._Who_2

PCI is a strong Church - it's a braod Church with members from every section of society - finance, business, the caring professions etc etc. Where was the vision to ask these people to come and help us - they would have!! Nobody wants to see PCI and it's good work ruined. It's been said "Man's extremity (or a Church's) is God's opportunity" Couldn't we have made an appeal, not for money, but for people to bring their expertise to this problem. To help us see how funding could be raised, even by way of a loan - I would imagine there would be much good-will towards this. Set these people, caring professions and all, up as a high profile panel operating at the heart of PCI - clear out an office or two so that they'll have space and equipment to help us in the biggest crisis ever to face PCI - there can be no bigger crisis than a crisis of credibility. Where was the vision? Where is the vision? It needs to come from the top here - go to the media and send out the cry for help - it would be a humbling thing to do but a bit of humbling does us no harm at times. I fear a great opportunity has been lost - well, perhaps not. Take care. (Remember someone said "This is a Presbyterian problem - Presbyterians will solve it")

goodbyepci

Dr._Who wrote: »

If PMS had too much money about them they should have put it in the Nationwide!!

Dr Who
Up until 2002 PMS put spare capital into NI banks

Some time after that, it all seems to have gone horribly wrong

Dr._Who_2

I think this is the only way the Administrator can begin to "re-finance" at some level - selling the loan book isn't a great option at the moment!! It's the "curtness" of the letters which is a problem for some - I don't think it will cause any great problem but would like to think that somebody would care if it did!!

What happens if the Administrator decided to approach Churches with a large loan out e.g. £200,000 and asks for it to be repaid within 21 days?

I know that some Churches have offered to do this voluntarily but so far it hasn't been asked for but some are looking for other sources fo finance so that they can repay early and in full, thus trying to help the situation!!

Wouldn't the money have been safer if it had just stayed in the bank after 2,002!!