NI Presbyterian mutual society, Short of funds for withdrawal?

goodbyepci

PMS on Radio Foyle now if you can get it

crazymess

Another view from Slugger O'Toole

Wednesday, April 22, 2009

Presbyterian Mutual Society Broke Law

The BBC and News Letter are reporting that the Presbyterian Mutual Society broke the law by running as a bank without the necessary authorisation
The FSA have been investigating the circumstances which led to the collapse.
In a statement it said: “We have concluded our investigation and have decided that the PMS was conducting regulated activities without the necessary authorisation or exemption.
“However, on the basis of the information currently available to us, and applying the criteria in the Code for Crown Prosecutors, we have decided that it would not be right for us to take a case against any of those involved in running the PMS.
“However, we remain in touch with the administrator and, if further information comes to light relating to the issues we have investigated, we will look into it.”
I have argued this before but now with a clear suggestion that this organisation, inextricably linked as it was with the PCI, has been found in breach of the law; surely it is time for the Presbyterian Church to financially compensate those individuals who have suffered from this illegality? The church would be in a much better moral position to ask the government to help if it was prepared to set an example by accepting at least some of the financial repercussions which have affected many Presbyterians; a large number of whom are elderly and can ill afford this hardship.

goodbyepci

Pastor Ernest Howie speaking about PMS on Radio Foyle today at lunchtime

http://www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/radiofoyle/programmes/news/

scroll down to News at One
click on WED
About 10 mins into broadcast

fivealive_2

crazymess wrote: »

If you look at the FSA document


then look at the Newsletter version

the WORD - "EXEMPTION" - The same word used at the end of one sentence and then at the end of the other - sentence.

Its a very common typo mistake - when typing the eye has run on to the next line - and probably when the press release by FSA was being typed OUT the - typist must have left - THE MOST IMPORTANT SENTENCE OF COURSE!!!!!!!!!!!

We have concluded our investigation and have decided that it was conducting regulated activities without the necessary authorisation or exemption.


Wonder what the Directors OF THE PMS THINK NOW!

Oh dear oh dear

Call me cynical but I do not believe it was a typo, I think that they were asked to "play it down".
I emailed Lord Turner on the 20th March and received a reply from Mr D Franks of the FSA today telling me more or less what crazymess discovered yesterday. The letter is dated 20th April and posted 2nd class. I wonder if any of the rest of you who contacted Lord Turner at other dates also received a letter today? If you did, my suspicious mind would think that the FSA deliberately sent the letters out at a time when they knew the media would be consumed with the Budget. :think:
If anyone wants to see a copy of this letter you can contact me privately.

goodbyepci

Here's a rough transcription of Pastor Howie's interview today.
My typing wouldn't be the best, so I hope I haven't missed anything.
(I wouldn't want to miss out any important bits like FSA!!)

Pastor Ernest Howie
Radio Foyle News at One on 22nd April
Intro by interviewer
A Derry pastor who invested over £600,000 with the Presbyterian Mutual Society says he will mount his own legal challenge to get the money back.
Then followed some background on the FSA report.
Pastor Howie says he is determined that investors won’t lose their savings.

Pastor Howie
I was really shocked when I read the first report that the FSA had found nothing to be concerned about, and this latest statement I believe is closer to the truth.
This whole situation as far as we are concerned is divided into 2 parts what was going on before and what is going on now.
There is a real need to find out exactly what was going on in the boardroom of PMS.
It is clear that PMS started operating outside their normal field of activity; we need to find out to what degree directors were aware of this.
The board professionals had an opportunity in year 2000 - the law was changed. The PMS had an opportunity to apply for covering under the FSA regulation. If this had happened then this entire crisis would not have happened.
The FSA protection would have applied to the PMS and there would have been no run on their funds and the PMS could well have survived.
I’ve already been and visited the lawyers for the PMS and I have made it clear to them that we intend to legally challenge. If the FSA is going to do nothing about it we can’t sit as savers and say “Well it might work out alright” we need to do something.

Interviewer
......What route are you going to go down legally

Pastor Howie
Well at the moment we are seeking legal opinion on what exactly our legal status is and we are intending to fight this if necessary in the courts. We need the support of other savers, this is not the Lone Ranger. There was another situation with the administrator in that he had the opportunity to form a creditors committee - now he decided not to do that - he said the logistics of it would be too difficult - but I believe that is depriving the creditors of a forum to fight their corner and maintain their privileged position in all of this. So we need to attack all of those things and we need a body of savers - no one person can financially fight this themselves - and again I appeal to other savers today to gather together - talk to me, we need to get a legal team together and we need to fight this.

Interviewer
Do you think you will ever see any of that money back again

Pastor Howie
I am confident we will see- all the money’s not gone – see some of it, but who wants to see 60p in the £ when we can see 100p in the £ . So the money will come. Mr Boyd the administrator says he is looking for an orderly run down to sometime in 2010 - how can he achieve that when the bulk of the money is tied up in commercial property and in this present economic downturn those properties cannot be liquidated without substantial loss? So how can he bring an orderly run down a year from now? I can’t see that - but we will see our money - the question is will all the savers and shareholders in PMS live long enough to enjoy receiving it back.

sickasaparrot

I also received the FSA letter today !!!!!!

crazymess

Do you know what saddens me the most?

Our savings have been lost

We have had sleepless nights because of this disaster



And yet - we have to become investigative journalists - to try and find out the truth in all of this.


Surely - surely the powers that be DETI etc - would have known about the real truth of the FSA investigation and that the Newsletter was reporting incorrectly - and of course we are the last to know!!!!

fivealive_2

sickasaparrot wrote: »

I also received the FSA letter today !!!!!!

I rest my case!

red_bertie

Here's an 'off the wall' suggestion.

PCI are officially deemed a legal separate entity to PMS. Now the cat is out of the bag, why can't PCI use FSA statement and findings to sue PMS [directors].

PCI still have sufficient finances + clout/leverage/experience with and access to legal representation and can get a secured loan if necessary [against all church owned assets] to cover the cost of doing this, which from what I can see is a daunting [financially and otherwise] task for the average saver.

If they aim for individuals [directors and/or their insurance] and are successful, any recovered costs would not be borne by the remaining PMS pot - i.e. you the savers, but by insurance companies or recovered by liquidating the assets of the wrong-doers.

A very christian thing to do and one which would, excuse the wordplay, restore faith in PCI.

readyforaction

Red Bertie - I have thought for a long time that the PCI should have sued the PMS for using the name 'Presbyterian' and bringing the Presbyterian Church into disrepute over this debacle.

The fact that they haven't probably speaks louder than any words - GUILTY BY ASSOCIATION.

Good interview by Ernest Howie. Good work by Crazymess.

Remember the plan of action:
(1) Creditors' vote
(2) Lobbying DETI about their role in this and their convenient silence to date.
(3) Write to all other recommended parties on threads.
(4) Get writing to Church House - to Rev Donald Patton and also to Rev Stafford Carson, the incoming moderator. Today's information should be enough to give those in Church House and the PMS directors a few sleepless nights. That's their problem, not the savers'.
(5) Dignified presence at General Assembly.

Unbelieveable state of affairs. Can you believe it?