Ken Clarke Britain is on brink of 'meltdown'

sabretoothtigger

They scrapped free milk in 79 I believe but many continued the practice for some years with people having to bring in money for it

Ken clarke and Nigel Lawson especially were the real engineers of the last ten years I'd say, at the time I thought they acted prudently and took alot of flak for it

Ive no idea if they would have spotted the FNM iceberg way ahead, but I'd rate their chances over brown or the present guy for sure just because they seemed ready to make hard choices and take flak for them knowing it would pay off later.

In contrast brown has been praised almost immediately

Brown took the credit for the last 10 years but one of the main reasons labour got into power at 97 was because of a promise to copy Conservative finance policies though they might have differed more recently

While in opposition [Nigel Lawson], co-ordinated tactics with government backbenchers Jeff Rooker and Audrey Wise to secure legislation providing for the automatic indexation of tax thresholds to prevent the tax burden being increased by inflation (typically in excess of 10% per annum during that parliament).

The sp500 has lost all its recent gains, so once again it stands on a cliff top. The ftse100 has outperformed it so is really due a fall of 10% and then another 15% or so if it goes over the top completely.
So I guess the market is reflecting the headline there, maybe that last big meeting bush is having will bring enough good news

StevieJ

sabretoothtigger wrote: »

They scrapped free milk in 79 I believe but many continued the practice for some years with people having to bring in money for it

Ken clarke and Nigel Lawson especially were the real engineers of the last ten years I'd say, at the time I thought they acted prudently and took alot of flak for it

Ive no idea if they would have spotted the FNM iceberg way ahead, but I'd rate their chances over brown or the present guy for sure just because they seemed ready to make hard choices and take flak for them knowing it would pay off later.

In contrast brown has been praised almost immediately

Brown took the credit for the last 10 years but one of the main reasons labour got into power at 97 was because of a promise to copy Conservative finance policies though they might have differed more recently






The sp500 has lost all its recent gains, so once again it stands on a cliff top. The ftse100 has outperformed it so is really due a fall of 10% and then another 15% or so if it goes over the top completely.
So I guess the market is reflecting the headline there, maybe that last big meeting bush is having will bring enough good news

It was stopped in 72 by Thatcher (refer artcle above) although some councils continued to supply until the govt threatened to make councillors personally responsible for the cost, it stopped then. I t was argued for some kids it was the only nourishment they would receive in a day.

dopester

amcluesent wrote: »

Abandon all hope once you enter deflation

The price of white truffles has fallen 84pc. Fines wines have dropped 65pc. Lobsters are off 52pc. Deflation has reached the City. It has engulfed housing and now threatens to spread through the broader economy, lodging like a virus in the British and global monetary systems.

The curse of deflation is that it increases the burden of debts. Incomes fall: debts stay the same. This way lies suffocation.

"It is going to be absolute murder in Britain if inflation turns negative," said Professor Peter Spencer from York University. "The big difference with past episodes is that we are now much more heavily indebted. Few people owned their own houses in 1930s. Debts were miniscule."

Deflation has other insidious traits. It causes shoppers to hold back. They wait for lower prices. Once this psychology gains a grip, it can gradually set off a self-feeding spiral that is hard to stop.

Good article.

Your link didn't work properly for me, so I'm giving an alternative link:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/3448664/Abandon-all-hope-once-you-enter-deflation.html

From all I've read, Japan didn't turn to helicopters though, as the author indicates they did and we might (my worst fear - as it just steals from those who have not indulged in the spend-spend borrow-borrow debt-debt speculation-speculation orgy) - not in the sense that it flooded the money supply. It did increase the currency but not drastically.. by just a few percent.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/columnists/chi-fri-greising-fed-inflation-oct31,0,2125089.column

The Bank of Japan reached the zero bound, then basically sat still. Rampant deflation caused the economy to seize up.

One lesson, Meltzer said, is to not fret too much about a mild onset of deflation.

"Deflation is something we'd like to avoid, just as we'd like to avoid inflation," Meltzer said. "A mild deflation is not going to do us much harm."

The Fed can avoid serious deflation by astute use of the tools it has. There should be no need to go to such extremes as dumping money from helicopters, an option Bernanke mentioned in passing during an important speech in 2002, forever earning himself the moniker "Helicopter Ben."

Talk about rich ironies. The helicopter idea wasn't Bernanke's at all. It first was offered up by Milton Friedman, the free marketer, who fancifully conjured the "helicopter" approach in a speech about stop-gap solutions to extreme market events.

dopester

Helicopter money just destroys capital. It is just printed money. There is nothing behind it. It destroys the gilt market too... all the people, including foreigners, who parked trillions in sterling in gilts.

Their capital gets destroyed, so any such policy and individuals would sell and convert and try to get it elsewhere where such damaging policies to wealth aren't being pursued. At worst in to old forms of wealth, like jewellery and precious metals and antiques. The helicopter path and it leads to ruin. Distrust - the total seizure of the financial system.

And not to mention our landlord classes. Having had 11 years of congratulating themselves on just how smart they are, how much their portfolios are worth, how their renters pay their mortgages for them..... helicopter money destroys the smart and saves these gimps!

luvpump

The inevitable recession can now only be slowed.. not stopped.. As i have said before, the economy has to deflate to a more sustainable level for the long term ..

StevieJ

dopester wrote: »

Helicopter money just destroys capital. It is just printed money. There is nothing behind it. It destroys the gilt market too... all the people, including foreigners, who parked trillions in sterling in gilts.

Their capital gets destroyed, so any such policy and individuals would sell and convert and try to get it elsewhere where such damaging policies to wealth aren't being pursued. At worst in to old forms of wealth, like jewellery and precious metals and antiques. The helicopter path and it leads to ruin. Distrust - the total seizure of the financial system.

And not to mention our landlord classes. Having had 11 years of congratulating themselves on just how smart they are, how much their portfolios are worth, how their renters pay their mortgages for them..... helicopter money destroys the smart and saves these gimps!

So houses are not old form of wealth?

Conrad

Ken Clarke has gone down in my estimation, since on Newsnight 3 or 4 weeks back he argued a 0.25% rate cut would be as far as he would go - what a muppet

Conrad

Milk and dairy based products feed cancers - according to a Doc on Radio 4. I avoid dairy products when I feel a cold comming on.

Chinese people say we give off an unpleasant milky smell, and according to the Doc non smoking related cancers are very low in China due to the absence of dairy in thier diet

Cheese - thats just a block of fat, cant get my head around cheese at all - I'm the odd one I know

dopester

StevieJ wrote: »

So houses are not old form of wealth?

Yes of course Stevie, but not for me at these price levels.

Not under these prevailing economic conditions. 300% HPI over 11 years. I don't see why it can't reverse at a much quicker rate. The pillars for such high house prices were based on personal debt, and an economy that ran on debt, and credit channelled to HPI. Oh-oh.

neverdespairgirl

Conrad wrote: »

Milk and dairy based products feed cancers - according to a Doc on Radio 4. I avoid dairy products when I feel a cold comming on.

Chinese people say we give off an unpleasant milky smell, and according to the Doc non smoking related cancers are very low in China due to the absence of dairy in thier diet

Cheese - thats just a block of fat, cant get my head around cheese at all - I'm the odd one I know

Is it just me, or is that a bit random?

I thought sales of dairy in China were soaring, as they aspire to a Western diet / lifestyle.