Panorama: Can't Pay, Won't Pay

~Brock~

marshallka wrote: »

A lot of people making claims against banks start off claiming for just the PPI being missold and get told by the bank "you signed the agreement so that is that". Now if they have no recourse through the FOS and are struggling to make ends meet then why should they not claim back for the same reasons.

:eek:

Same reasons!!??

The whole PPI shambles is about non compliance with FSA Regulations.

The FSA do not regulate unsecured credit. God help us all if they ever did. Where will it end?

In the shoe shop (in the not too distant future?)
"I would like to buy a pair of black leather shoes please."
"Sir, if only it were that simple. Here's my card and a set of Key Facts documents."
"What are these for?"
"They tell you that I can only talk to you about shoes and allied products sold by this shop. I can't talk to you about shoes sold by any other shoe shop nor can I give you any advice on, say, sausages for instance"
“I see."
"Probably the best way to proceed is to show you where we fit into the footwear industry. We buy in most of our products from the Far East at a fairly modest price and sell them onto the public at a considerably higher price; but of course out of the mark up we have to pay for transportation, import duties, rent and rates, display staff, sales staff, cleaners and administration, etc., etc, and, of course, our shareholders have to be paid a dividend out of the remaining profits. Not many people think about this when they buy their shoes but we think it's important, so with this in mind I'd like to ask you a few questions to make sure you get the shoes, or even boots, that are exactly right for you. It may be, when I have all the facts, I recommend that you do not buy my footwear at all. May I proceed?''
"What, do you want to know?”
"Well, how many arms and legs have you got for a start?”
"What have arms got to do with shoes?”
"Well, Sir. If, for example, you only have one arm and I sold you a pair of shoes with laces that could be construed as bad advice by BASTIRO.”
'What is BASTIRO?"
"The Boot and Shoe Trade & Industry Regulatory Organisation"
"What would they do?"
"Put the boot in. A friend of mine had to leave the industry."
“What did he do wrong?”
"Sold a pair of carpet slippers."
"What's wrong with that?"
"Turned out the guy hadn't got a carpet. So you see, I need to build up a full picture of you. For example, do you need the shoes for business or pleasure or business and pleasure? How many shoes have you got already? How many casuals, suede, plimsolls, sandals, Wellingtons, etc? How many suits ‑ what colour are they? Have you athletes foot? Can you touch your toes? Any corns or bunions or has your family a history of foot rot? What kind of socks do you wear? ‑ How often do you cut your toe‑nails? How much do you earn and what's your overall clothes budget? Well thank you for that information. I'll give it some serious thought and would like you to come back in two weeks’ time.”
Two weeks later....
"Ah good morning, Sir. I've given it serious thought and what you need is a pair of black leather shoes."
"Isn't that what I asked for in the first place?"
"With respect Sir, you have had the benefit of my professional advice based upon all the relevant facts as given and you now know with some certainty that you require black leather shoes. All that guesswork has been taken out of it. Here's your Suitability Letter, and Key Features Documents ‑ I recommend you buy these black leather shoes because they'll keep your feet dry, match your suits, look smart and you can afford them."
"Well, I'm glad that's settled!"
`You want the shoes then?"
`Yes please."
"Right, if you'd like to complete this application form, and here's your Personal Illustration. It shows a complete breakdown of costs and profits and includes my 50p commission. Your Key Features Documents describe in great detail how the shoes are made, and highlights the risk factors."
"Risk factors?"
`Yes, for example if you live too long the shoes may need repairing. On the other hand, if you die before you've had your wear out of them I'm afraid there'll be no refund, even if they don't fit another member of your family."
“I see."
"So, just to recap: You've got my card, both Key Facts documents, your Key Features Documents, Brochure, Personal Illustration, Suitability Letter. Now Sir, you will get a letter from my Head Office telling you that I do in fact work for A.& R. Sole Ltd and also a Statutory Cooling-off Notice. You can still return the shoes within 30 days and have a full refund if you don't like them for any reason. Incidentally, how are you paying?"
"Cash."
"Sorry, Sir. That’s not allowed. You'll have to run home and get your cheque book. Also, whilst you're at it, could you bring me a recent utility bill, your passport and Council Tax bill to prove your identity. One last thing Sir, do any of you friends require shoes?"
:rotfl:

(due credit to the original author of the above - whoever he/she is!)

maxdp

POSSETTE wrote: »

i agree with getting PPI back that was missold..BUT its getting really petty when your arguement is the spelling of the word "settlement" being wrong!!! or signature in slightly wrong place.both of these were previous posts in this thread..that is just someone trying to get out of paying for what they have had..

Hi Possette

I think that what you are saying is fine in principle but what about people on here who have tried to get PPI back which has blatantly been miss sold by the banks. When people have tried to claim it back they have been told well you should have read the small print, or you should not have signed incorrect paperwork, etc etc then why is it different that some people have decided to go down this other route and turn the tables on these lenders. Basically they should have got their paperwork correct.

In most cases if these lenders repaid what was obviously a miss sold insurance, then there would be no need to go down that route.l A lot of these close down and open up as another company and will not honour the mistakes they have made before. Do you think that is right I do not.

I do think that if people knowingly took out PPI and had it explained to them exactly what they were taken out and were given professional advice, and by that I mean not telephone sales people that are on a commission to sell this insurance, then fair enough they should not claim it back.

I just get fed up with these know it all people on here that just slate people who sometimes through no fault of their own have got themselves into debt because of unprofessional advice.

If these banks were doctors and surgeons they would be taken to court for misconduct and struck of it is a pity that does not happen with these Lenders. Making them pay huge fines is on the surface OK but who pays them we do. What they should do as far as I am concerned is pay that fine out straight away to people who are trying to claim PPI back some of whom may be out of their homes by christmas. Is that right

maxdp

~Brock~ wrote: »

:eek:

Same reasons!!??

The whole PPI shambles is about non compliance with FSA Regulations.

The FSA do not regulate unsecured credit. God help us all if they ever did. Where will it end?

In the shoe shop (in the not too distant future?)
"I would like to buy a pair of black leather shoes please."
"Sir, if only it were that simple. Here's my card and a set of Key Facts documents."
"What are these for?"
"They tell you that I can only talk to you about shoes and allied products sold by this shop. I can't talk to you about shoes sold by any other shoe shop nor can I give you any advice on, say, sausages for instance"
“I see."
"Probably the best way to proceed is to show you where we fit into the footwear industry. We buy in most of our products from the Far East at a fairly modest price and sell them onto the public at a considerably higher price; but of course out of the mark up we have to pay for transportation, import duties, rent and rates, display staff, sales staff, cleaners and administration, etc., etc, and, of course, our shareholders have to be paid a dividend out of the remaining profits. Not many people think about this when they buy their shoes but we think it's important, so with this in mind I'd like to ask you a few questions to make sure you get the shoes, or even boots, that are exactly right for you. It may be, when I have all the facts, I recommend that you do not buy my footwear at all. May I proceed?''
"What, do you want to know?”
"Well, how many arms and legs have you got for a start?”
"What have arms got to do with shoes?”
"Well, Sir. If, for example, you only have one arm and I sold you a pair of shoes with laces that could be construed as bad advice by BASTIRO.”
'What is BASTIRO?"
"The Boot and Shoe Trade & Industry Regulatory Organisation"
"What would they do?"
"Put the boot in. A friend of mine had to leave the industry."
“What did he do wrong?”
"Sold a pair of carpet slippers."
"What's wrong with that?"
"Turned out the guy hadn't got a carpet. So you see, I need to build up a full picture of you. For example, do you need the shoes for business or pleasure or business and pleasure? How many shoes have you got already? How many casuals, suede, plimsolls, sandals, Wellingtons, etc? How many suits ‑ what colour are they? Have you athletes foot? Can you touch your toes? Any corns or bunions or has your family a history of foot rot? What kind of socks do you wear? ‑ How often do you cut your toe‑nails? How much do you earn and what's your overall clothes budget? Well thank you for that information. I'll give it some serious thought and would like you to come back in two weeks’ time.”
Two weeks later....
"Ah good morning, Sir. I've given it serious thought and what you need is a pair of black leather shoes."
"Isn't that what I asked for in the first place?"
"With respect Sir, you have had the benefit of my professional advice based upon all the relevant facts as given and you now know with some certainty that you require black leather shoes. All that guesswork has been taken out of it. Here's your Suitability Letter, and Key Features Documents ‑ I recommend you buy these black leather shoes because they'll keep your feet dry, match your suits, look smart and you can afford them."
"Well, I'm glad that's settled!"
`You want the shoes then?"
`Yes please."
"Right, if you'd like to complete this application form, and here's your Personal Illustration. It shows a complete breakdown of costs and profits and includes my 50p commission. Your Key Features Documents describe in great detail how the shoes are made, and highlights the risk factors."
"Risk factors?"
`Yes, for example if you live too long the shoes may need repairing. On the other hand, if you die before you've had your wear out of them I'm afraid there'll be no refund, even if they don't fit another member of your family."
“I see."
"So, just to recap: You've got my card, both Key Facts documents, your Key Features Documents, Brochure, Personal Illustration, Suitability Letter. Now Sir, you will get a letter from my Head Office telling you that I do in fact work for A.& R. Sole Ltd and also a Statutory Cooling-off Notice. You can still return the shoes within 30 days and have a full refund if you don't like them for any reason. Incidentally, how are you paying?"
"Cash."
"Sorry, Sir. That’s not allowed. You'll have to run home and get your cheque book. Also, whilst you're at it, could you bring me a recent utility bill, your passport and Council Tax bill to prove your identity. One last thing Sir, do any of you friends require shoes?"
:rotfl:

(due credit to the original author of the above - whoever he/she is!)

Your point being

~Brock~

maxdp wrote: »

Your point being

I'm surprised I have to state the obvious but my point was that over regulation can be as bad as no regulation at all. (....and I also thought it was funny as hell !!)

I like to think that the general population should be trusted to wipe their own backsides.

maxdp

~Brock~ wrote: »

I'm surprised I have to state the obvious but my point was that over regulation can be as bad as no regulation at all. (....and I also thought it was funny as hell !!)

I like to think that the general population should be trusted to wipe their own backsides.

So do I but they do not need the supermarkets to sell them Kitchen Roll to do it.:rolleyes: Without being in a position to do so.

maxdp

peka2k wrote: »

I cant believe that people are actually trying this on. Why not just pay what you owe like the rest of us mugs? Its because of people like this that the whole economy is in the state it is in, that money is still owed, it doesnt just vanish into thin air.

Unbelievable

It is not that people are unwilling to pay their debt it is that companies just sold people the debt plus all the frillies that go with it without explaining exactly what you are letting yourself in for. Some people are very good at questioning everything. Others get caught. Some of these lenders sell you huge loans plus PPI and you pay want to settle a 20 year loan after say 8 years and when you get a settlement figure you owe more than you took out in the first place.

~Brock~

maxdp wrote: »

It is not that people are unwilling to pay their debt it is that companies just sold people the debt plus all the frillies that go with it without explaining exactly what you are letting yourself in for. Some people are very good at questioning everything. Others get caught. Some of these lenders sell you huge loans plus PPI and you pay want to settle a 20 year loan after say 8 years and when you get a settlement figure you owe more than you took out in the first place.

Maxdp please don't confuse 'trying to avoid paying for debts by looking for loopholes' with PPI misselling. That is the point I was trying to make with Marshallka further up this page.

This thread is generally about the practice of people conning their way out of their obligations, not due to any misselling, but by taking advantage of alleged 'errors' which I am sure in 99.9% of cases made absolutely no difference to or prejudiced the rights of the those who claim to be the injured parties.

So far there appears to be an equal number of posters from both sides of the fence which is making for a healthy, if slightly repetitive, debate.

maxdp

~Brock~ wrote: »

Maxdp please don't confuse 'trying to avoid paying for debts by looking for loopholes' with PPI misselling. That is the point I was trying to make with Marshallka further up this page.

This thread is generally about the practice of people conning their way out of their obligations, not due to any misselling, but by taking advantage of alleged 'errors' which I am sure in 99.9% of cases made absolutely no difference to or prejudiced the rights of the those who claim to be the injured parties.

So far there appears to be an equal number of posters from both sides of the fence which is making for a healthy, if slightly repetitive, debate.

OK I take on your point but can understand why there are the two sides depending on what your personal position is here. I have no probs with debate I like it.:D

~Brock~

maxdp wrote: »

OK I take on your point but can understand why there are the two sides depending on what your personal position is here. I have no probs with debate I like it.:D

So am I still a self righteous !!!! then ? :rotfl:

Angel_A_2

Well I have a meeting with my bank "ABOUT MY CIRCUMSTANCES" they called it after I wrote to them about my financial position!

I intend to ask for what I THINK is right in my eyes....TO FREEZE MY FLIPPING INTEREST!!!!!! I INTEND TO PAY FOR THE MONEY I'VE USED BUT ONLY THAT!!!!

I have enough of going around in circles each month, trying to balance my finances because them arzzeholes are sitting on MINE and many others money they solict each blo0-0y month!

I was told about this by my mum and considered looking into it! But I am not trying to AVOID paying for my debts....I just would like an OPPORTUNITY to stay afloat.....while we await the outcome of the Bank Charges!!! Cos they owe me a nice amount!

And that's all I have to say on that....AT THE MO!