Scottish Trust Deeds Help and Advice

FireyFee

My partner has a loan running that his mum and dad took out for him so they could not add that into the trust deed also i have a car on finance that had only been running a few months. So we have to pay out the loan £200 per month the finance £145 plus two trust deeds £400 per month. This does not include any household bills, food, clothing. I'm at my wits end as our income has been reduced recently by over £500 per month and the trust deed will not change our payments.:(

coolcait

FireyFee wrote: »

My partner has a loan running that his mum and dad took out for him so they could not add that into the trust deed also i have a car on finance that had only been running a few months. So we have to pay out the loan £200 per month the finance £145 plus two trust deeds £400 per month. This does not include any household bills, food, clothing. I'm at my wits end as our income has been reduced recently by over £500 per month and the trust deed will not change our payments.:(

Hiya again FireyFee

OK, it makes more sense now.

From the Trust Deed point of view, your partner DOESN'T have a loan. His parents have a loan (they took it out; it's in their names). So it couldn't possibly be included in your partner's trust deed.

Your partner's parents COULD maybe have been included as creditors in the trust deed - especially if you had some kind of paperwork showing that they had lent your partner x amount, and he was paying it back to them at the rate of £200 per month. But they would only have got back the same percentage as the rest of your creditors. And, in a trust deed, that not ususally very much (an average of around 20p in the pound - and that's only for the trust deeds that pay anything back to creditors. A great many don't pay anything at all).

Your trustee couldn't draw up a statment of affairs which let your partner pay £200 per month to his parents - that would have given them preferential treatment among your creditors.

So, I guess he/she drew up an SOA which took into account your living expenses, and then took your surplus income as the contribution to the trust deed.

The £200 for your partner's parents will be coming out of the money you've been allowed for your essential living expenses - and that will be a big hit, because trustees don't often give a lot of padding to an SOA.

If the trustee knew about this loan outside the trust deed then quite frankly he/she should have refused to let you sign it. It's financially unfeasible for you to maintain it, and it's legally dodgy for you to be paying one creditor the full contractual amount while others are getting only what the trust deed allows them.

I need to look into the HP side of it a bit more before I reply about the car you have on finance.

The top and bottom of it is that - if you were absolutely honest with the trustee about that payment ot your partner's parents, and you were still allowed to sign it - you would probably have very strong grounds to complain about his trust deed being mis-sold. I can't say how much good that would do!

Sorry this is such a 'downer' of a post. Hope it helps a little bit in explaining why things might have happened as they did.

FireyFee

Thanks for the info Roll on 2010

carolrhart

Although I'm 30 months into my Trust Deed and it's taught me some valuable lessons (I'll avoid credit like the plague in future and I'm very careful with my money now), I'm not sure I'd do it again. I wasn't given any advice about Debt Management Plans, and headed straight into the Trust Deed. It didn't help that only 2 months into the TD my husband (now ex, and also in a TD) was made redundant. Payments were reduced temporarily until we got back on our feet, but by then we'd split up. We were forced to sell our house to release the equity, but luckily I was able to stay on as a tenant through the Communities Scotland scheme. As a result of the reduced payments the length of the TD has been extended but my ex hasn't made any payments for months (while I'm now making my full payments again) but with no news if he is to be sequestered. I think the firm we're with are a bit slip-shod. Frankly, I think my ex has got off lightly!
In short - with hindsight, I would have tried to negotiate a debt repayment plan first. Make sure you get good advice before you go for a Trust Deed - I didn't go to the right people first.

LostBoy

kev1980 wrote: »

If anyone needs help or advice with Scottish Trust Deeds then feel free to ask.

I'm not an expert but I am currently in a Scottish Trust Deed and may be able to answer questions.

Would be keen to hear your thoughts please.
My wife and I have been speaking to CCCS, Churchwood finance and now we have been advised to contact New Tomorrow in Glasgow. They have taken our details and have advised the following:
After realising my wife is a joint name on 3 personal loans they have advised her to go straight to sequestration (bankrupctcy) and I should enter the trust deed. - and try to get it protected.
One of our creditors is northern rock and are owed more than 30% of total debt of my wife's liabilty and New tomorrow advised that NR will not accept a trust deed for my wife and that she should go straight for sequestration (Bankruptcy) and while I am liable for more debt, NR are owed less then 30% of total of my liability and therefore even if they do not agree to protect the trust deed then they can't prevent it from happening. - as long as the other creditors agree.
ultimatley with my wife entering into sequestration she has 12 months to find the money (release the quity)or the trustee can force us to sell the property or evict us. - which means I effectivly have 12 months to find the equity from a 3rd party and remove my wife from the title deeds for me to have any chance of even being given the chance to adhere to my PTD.
the alternative is to attempt entering into a debt payment plan which would take 20-25 years to clear the debt. - I suspect the creditors will not be too pleased with this either.
i cant see any way out. the debt payment plan may be a short term solution. but ultimatly will lead to both of us being sequestrated.
PS - we would prefer not to have to move home

kev1980_2

LostBoy wrote: »

Would be keen to hear your thoughts please.
My wife and I have been speaking to CCCS, Churchwood finance and now we have been advised to contact New Tomorrow in Glasgow. They have taken our details and have advised the following:
After realising my wife is a joint name on 3 personal loans they have advised her to go straight to sequestration (bankrupctcy) and I should enter the trust deed. - and try to get it protected.
One of our creditors is northern rock and are owed more than 30% of total debt of my wife's liabilty and New tomorrow advised that NR will not accept a trust deed for my wife and that she should go straight for sequestration (Bankruptcy) and while I am liable for more debt, NR are owed less then 30% of total of my liability and therefore even if they do not agree to protect the trust deed then they can't prevent it from happening. - as long as the other creditors agree.
ultimatley with my wife entering into sequestration she has 12 months to find the money (release the quity)or the trustee can force us to sell the property or evict us. - which means I effectivly have 12 months to find the equity from a 3rd party and remove my wife from the title deeds for me to have any chance of even being given the chance to adhere to my PTD.
the alternative is to attempt entering into a debt payment plan which would take 20-25 years to clear the debt. - I suspect the creditors will not be too pleased with this either.
i cant see any way out. the debt payment plan may be a short term solution. but ultimatly will lead to both of us being sequestrated.
PS - we would prefer not to have to move home

Hello and Welcome!!

If you have spoken to the CCCS and they have recommened a Scottish Trust Deed they will have also recommended one of their approved trustees. The names Churchwood Finance and New Tomorrow i've not heard of.

Have you spoken with the Scottish office of the CCCS?

LostBoy

kev1980 wrote: »

Hello and Welcome!!

If you have spoken to the CCCS and they have recommened a Scottish Trust Deed they will have also recommended one of their approved trustees. The names Churchwood Finance and New Tomorrow i've not heard of.

Have you spoken with the Scottish office of the CCCS?

Yes but it wasn't the CCCS who recommended Trust Deed. - When I first spoke to them they weren't able to help because I am self employed and VAT registered - they asked me to speak to my accountant to calculate my NET figures before they could review my case. - I have done this. however, the CCCS now have an 8 week waiting list to get an appointment. - and I can't wait that long - and neither will my creditors. - so we have taken commercial advise. - I think Invocas look after the New tomorrow trust deeds.
thanks

kev1980_2

LostBoy wrote: »

Yes but it wasn't the CCCS who recommended Trust Deed. - When I first spoke to them they weren't able to help because I am self employed and VAT registered - they asked me to speak to my accountant to calculate my NET figures before they could review my case. - I have done this. however, the CCCS now have an 8 week waiting list to get an appointment. - and I can't wait that long - and neither will my creditors. - so we have taken commercial advise. - I think Invocas look after the New tomorrow trust deeds.
thanks

Hi

I would not approach a company doing Trust Deeds unless it is being recommended by CCCS - The CCCS guys and gals are the experts, if you've got to wait 8 weeks then so be it.

Tell your creditors that you are waiting for an appointment with CCCS and offer them a token payment as a gesture of goodwill whilst you wait your appointment.

Have you filled out the debt remedy on the CCCS website, it will work out if a Trust Deed is appropriate in your circumstances. You may be able to remain self employed whilst going through a trust deed although the final decision is up to your trustee.

coolcait

Hiya LostBoy

I agree with kev here. I would also suggest that you try to speak to your local CAB or local authority money advice office too. If they agree that a trust deed is the route for you, then they may be able to recommend an insolvency practitioner locally.

If your wife goes bankrupt she will - as you say - have to find her share of the equity in your property. If you sign a trust deed, you will also have to find your share of the equity in the property. So you're looking at finding the full equity. Can I ask how much equity is involved, and how likely it is that you will be able to find it all?

I also have to ask a few questions about some of the things you've said, as I'm not quite following it. New Tomorrow have advised your wife to go straight to bankruptcy, but is she able to do that? If you have property, she can't go on the Low Income Low Asset route. Has she received a charge for payment or stautory demand, or other proof of insolvency? If she hasn't, then I'm not too sure how New Tomorrow expect her to go bankrupt.

What percentage of her debt exactly is owed to Northern Rock? If it's less than 33.33% (I know, I know - I'm splitting hairs a bit here, but still! ) then she'd be in the same position as you.

Why do you think that the debt payment plan would ultimately lead to you both being sequestrated? If it's under the Debt Arrangement Scheme (unlikely perhaps, given the length of time it would run - but there is technically no limit on how long it could run for) then you're protected from bankruptcy as long as you keep paying it.

Finally, you say that your creditors won't wait 8 weeks. Have they already started proceedings against you, or are you referring to their harassment? If you're talking about the harassment - and not anything more formal than that - then I think it would be well worth your while gritting your teeth for a few more weeks, so that you can get further advice on what is best for you to do.

Sorry to fling so many questions at you, I just want to try to get a clearer picture of what you've been advised.

Take care

LostBoy

Hi Guys, I'll try to answer your questions as best I can.

coolcait - the local CAB meant well but were not able to advise on my situation. -it was simply to complex for them. - they actually advised going straight to a commercial debt management company.

Across the both properties we own there is approx £38K of equity. - however, there is a penalty (£6K) to pay on our second property if we sell before June 2009.

My wife has not received any documentation at all yet.

In total our joint debt is about £108K. £62 is joint and I am liable for the whole lot.
of this £62K my wife is liable for Northen Rock is £30K - so they have more then 33.3%.

I just think a debt management plan would take over 20 years to clear with our current level of disposable income. - CCCS have advised that creditors will not accept anything more than a 10 year plan. - what I have done meantime is send a financial statement to my creditors off my own back and most of them so far have accepted my reduced offer and most of them have frozen the interest. they have also said they would want a review in 3 - 6 months. - which I could do I suppose and do it via CCCS? - MBNA will not stop interest and have offered me a sercured loan to clear their card. - can this be legal offering me more credit when they know im in difficulty. - they say i'm not yet high risk in their eyes?? if I can't resume regular minimum payments by Jan they have also said they will sell my debt on to debt collectrs - what will this mean to me? will I be able to negotiate a playment plan with the collectors?
Northern Rock will not freeze interest , so my debt with them is actually increasing. and thomas cook credit card (Barclays) will not accept my minimum payment offer.

New tomorrow have advised I can remain self employed throughout the trust deed.

The debt remedy survey at CCCS is advising I call them because I am self emplyed.

I have also since found out that CCCS are funded by some of my creditors. - so does that mean they will effectively give preference to creditors who fund them??
regards