PayPal reversing CC payment - is this new?

vet8

More than a month ago I bought something on Ebay and paid with my PayPal account. I had all of 30p in there so I paid the rest of the £13.99 with my credit card. At this point I was bl**dy stupid. As I had not bought anything for some time I had totally forgotten that the card on my PayPal account had been cancelled due to fraudulent use. So of course after a few days PayPal contacted me to say that the card payment had been refused and my account was £13.69 in the red. I transferred £20 from my bank account and thought that was all O.K. Then this morning I had an e-mail from the seller saying that PayPal had reversed the transaction and he was £13.99 out of pocket.

Now there are two issues here.

Firstly, I cannot see how they can take back the money from him when they have already charged me for it. My account was £13.69 in the red, I paid in £20 and it is now £6.31 in the black. While I was waiting for the bank transfer to go through PayPal even e-mailed me to say that my account was £13.69 overdrawn, so they have definitely taken the money from me. How can they take it back from the seller? That means neither of us have got the money!

Secondly and more importantly, I did not realise PayPal could do this. Surely the entire point of accepting PayPal when you sell on Ebay is that the money is safe and guaranteed or so I thought.

I have looked at their conditions and they last changed their T & Cs in September this year. At the top of the page is a box written in heavy ink which says they can reverse a payment up to 140 days from the date of payment. They even state that this means that sellers will have posted the item to the buyer and could then find they have no money. In my case it is only a small amount, but some people sell things worth hundreds of pounds or more. If you sold something for £500 and then more than a month after you had posted it PayPal reversed the payment you would be pretty sick.:eek:

Is this not a dream for fraudsters, who can pay by PayPal, get the goods and then run knowing their fraud won’t be found out for a few days at least. Is this a new thing of PayPal? I must admit I have not sold anything for several months so I have not looked at the T& Cs closely for a while. But I was certainly never aware of this in the past. In strikes me as being really bad news and makes using PayPal very dangerous.

robb01

I really wish another company could take over paypals place in the internet economy. Paypal has so many horrible rules and regulations that make it impossible to like them

skintandscared_2

It does happen, and it's how a lot of people are managing to scam others on ebay. On another site I visit there is someone who sold a laptop for £900 on ebay. The buyer paid £600 with paypal and turned up to collect the item with £300 in cash. A week later the buyer told paypal his account had been used fraudulently and the £600 payment was immediately reversed - no questions asked. So the seller has now only got £300 for a £900 laptop...

sutton111

there forever doing this:mad: , i HATE paypal, the way they word this is also wrong, won't touch them with a barge pole.

chuckley

so glad i dropped ebay and paypal.

shame as i prefer paying by p.o or bt, but for sum ODD reason sellers dont like it...

anniecave

vet8 wrote: »

More than a month ago I bought something on Ebay and paid with my PayPal account. I had all of 30p in there so I paid the rest of the £13.99 with my credit card. At this point I was bl**dy stupid. As I had not bought anything for some time I had totally forgotten that the card on my PayPal account had been cancelled due to fraudulent use. So of course after a few days PayPal contacted me to say that the card payment had been refused and my account was £13.69 in the red. I transferred £20 from my bank account and thought that was all O.K. Then this morning I had an e-mail from the seller saying that PayPal had reversed the transaction and he was £13.99 out of pocket.

Now there are two issues here.

Firstly, I cannot see how they can take back the money from him when they have already charged me for it. My account was £13.69 in the red, I paid in £20 and it is now £6.31 in the black. While I was waiting for the bank transfer to go through PayPal even e-mailed me to say that my account was £13.69 overdrawn, so they have definitely taken the money from me. How can they take it back from the seller? That means neither of us have got the money!

Secondly and more importantly, I did not realise PayPal could do this. Surely the entire point of accepting PayPal when you sell on Ebay is that the money is safe and guaranteed or so I thought.

I have looked at their conditions and they last changed their T & Cs in September this year. At the top of the page is a box written in heavy ink which says they can reverse a payment up to 140 days from the date of payment. They even state that this means that sellers will have posted the item to the buyer and could then find they have no money. In my case it is only a small amount, but some people sell things worth hundreds of pounds or more. If you sold something for £500 and then more than a month after you had posted it PayPal reversed the payment you would be pretty sick.:eek:

Is this not a dream for fraudsters, who can pay by PayPal, get the goods and then run knowing their fraud won’t be found out for a few days at least. Is this a new thing of PayPal? I must admit I have not sold anything for several months so I have not looked at the T& Cs closely for a while. But I was certainly never aware of this in the past. In strikes me as being really bad news and makes using PayPal very dangerous.

There are diferent transactions going on here. You trying to pay with a cancelled credit card transaction is one. You adding £20 to your paypal balance is a different transaction.

It sounds like when you tried to pay with a cancelled card then the payment went through initial stages of authorisation at least, then got declined later, so the seller received a payment and then a reversal.

When you go into your paypal account, have a look at the history of what you have paid out and what is the current balance. Is the £20 sitting as a credit on the paypal account or has part of it gone to your seller?

If the seller still has not received a payment, double check whether you have actually paid them, and if so then take it up with paypal.

vet8

I have checked my Paypal account loads of times and the £13.99 has definitely gone out of it. The £20 was used in part to pay the seller as soon as I paid it in. I am surprised that all this has taken so long. I can see the problem with the initial card transaction, but that was over a month ago. How come they are reversing the payment now and also how can they?

I shall be very wary of accepting PayPal again as a seller.

louiser123

i went on to ebay to sell some stuff recently, its ages since i sold but on listing the first item i HAD to accept paypal!!! its new apparently and a condition that sellers have to accept paypal as a form of payment they dont have a choice anymore.
needless to say i didnt bother i got stung for two sales last year by paypal reversing payments, buyer said they never recieved the item, both were sent recorded and signed for!!! and this proof was sent to paypal yet still paypal left me out of pocket and seller had the goods and my money!!! only about 50 quid in total for both but i wont use them ever again neither to sell nor buy!!!!

vet8

I used to sell loads of books on Ebay using PayPal most of the time. I haven't sold for a while due to shortage of time, but having read some of the things on this thread I don't think I shall be any more. It seems that Ebay has introduced loads of buyer protection - fair enough, but they have shafted the sellers.

If you are forced to use PayPal and they can take the money back at will it seems to be a recipe for disaster :mad: especially as they charge fairly high commission for using their services.

vet8

I've been looking into this today and it seems the new Paypal T & Cs are a dream for fraudsters. You agree to buy something for £500 say, PayPal often then holds the money in their sort of suspense account for 21 days. The seller must send the item and Paypal do not release the funds until positive feedback is received. Easy to just say it has not arrived or was faulty. PayPal refund the buyer the £500 and the seller loses out.

Look at the ebay forum. There are loads of messages from people who have been ripped off. PayPal say they only hold the money if you are a high risk seller; very new to Ebay or less than 100% feedback or selling risky items, but it appears there are loads of reputable sellers with excellent feedback who have fallen foul of this as well. I shall not be selling on Ebay any more it is just too risky. PayPal also seem to refund buyers without checking if their claims are true. Several people have proof of posting etc. but PayPal still refunds the money and the buyer keeps the goods.

They have protected the buyers which is great, but totally shafted the sellers.

louiser123

i totally agree vet8 and will be steering clear of ebay have done actually for months as i think its a fraudsters heaven and the charges they charge for selling and using paypal are extortion anyway!!! as usual something which set off so good has been spoiled again!!!