Can I change a thermocouple or do I have to call an engineer?

gromituk

Nile wrote:

Please note the warning message at the top of this board:

Announcement: Warning! Always use a professional for gas maintenance and complex electrical repairs. Being safe is more important than MoneySaving.
10-02-2005 MSE Andrea (Official Administrator)

It really isn't worth taking a risk with your safety.

Yeah - and you might as well never cross the road, while you're about it.

A thermocouple is a failsafe device: if you don't fit it properly, your boiler will not stay alight.

moneysavingplumber

gromituk wrote:

Yeah - and you might as well never cross the road, while you're about it.

A thermocouple is a failsafe device: if you don't fit it properly, your boiler will not stay alight.

The OP once again regards the legality of doing the work, not whether or not the law is right or wrong. It is working on a gas appliance, which the manufacturers, Corgi and the HSE all say should only be carried out by a legally competent person, and the only current legal definition of that is to be Corgi registered. Why people continue to try and find legal loopholes, or to try and grade 'how dangerous' a job would be to try and do yourself I don't really understand. If you don't know what the law is regarding gas safety, then you shouldn't be doing the work.

Attempting repairs on a gas appliance when you are not qualified is not, in my opinion, comparable to the everyday risk involved in crossing the road. If you started trying to make exceptions for varying degrees of difficulty or danger it would be a farce because there would be no obvious place to draw the line. A thermocouple isn't always failsafe when it or the gas valve are not working correctly, correct cut-out time on flame-supervision devices are standard tests in boiler servicing and safety checks (I have found several not to be working in the past), and it is the fitter's responsibility to ensure that appliance is operating 100% safely once that repair has been carried out. People without the relevant training and qualifications are simply not going to be able to ensure that. As previously pointed out, there may be flame problems with the pilot injector causing premature failure of consecutive thermocouples, and not all so-called 'universals' are actually universal, which may be another cause that should be investigated. If there are other dangerous faults that the occupier may not be aware of, then it is in their interests that a competent person carries out the relevant recommissioning checks once the repair is carried out, especially when relating to a conventionally flued appliance that has probably not been serviced properly in years.

I know from previous posts gromituk that you do not agree with some things about the industry, but I personally think the law is right in this case, it may not be implemented brilliantly all the time, and even many of us Corgi registered people are not totally happy with everything but it's what the law is at the moment, and I reiterate that if you have to ask on a forum about how and whether it's legal to carry out a repair on a gas appliance like a gas fire or back-boiler firefront then it's fairly clear you shouldn't be messing with it.

tomstickland

I agree up to a point. Gas is probably the most dangerous utility.

The law is there to protect us from the terminally stupid. I've seen some really stupid wiring done by incompetant DIYers which I replaced. But I'm not a qualified electrician. A friend and myself fitted a combi boiler to his house. I've also fitted engines/brakes/suspension parts to numerous cars and I'm not a qualified mechanic. Gives me a warm* sense of satisfaction that. *Quite literally.

moneysavingplumber

Well you raise a good point that is another matter, and pretty off-topic (sorry), in that anyone can work as a mechanic and I can do anything I like to my van/car without any training and drive around in a deathtrap and will not be accountable even in the event of an accident, I would only be held responsible as the driver, not the person that did the work on it. It's only in the last year that electricians have had restrictions placed on them under Part P but it's far less constrictive in that I can still legally DIY my electrics and get it signed off by a building inspector, which you can also do with oil work, but not with gas. The problem with all the various registration procedures is that they all cost a fortune, not only the training and registration costs, but the equipment you're expected to buy, that has to be calibrated annually, it makes it very difficult for the one-man-band to survive and favours big businesses.

Most self-employed fitters that enter schemes like Corgi or NIC do so in good faith and have an interest in doing things properly, and rightly take alot of pride in doing things properly. I think the argument in favour of registration is far stronger than the argument against, but ultimately it is the Corgi registered people that get hit with the costs that inevitably get passed on to the paying customer.

gromituk

moneysavingplumber wrote:

...and I reiterate that if you have to ask on a forum about how and whether it's legal to carry out a repair on a gas appliance like a gas fire or back-boiler firefront then it's fairly clear you shouldn't be messing with it.

But you could just as well conclude that the law is an !!!!!!.

gromituk

moneysavingplumber wrote:

A thermocouple isn't always failsafe when it or the gas valve are not working correctly, correct cut-out time on flame-supervision devices are standard tests in boiler servicing and safety checks

I take your point that there may be other things wrong with the boiler, but I don't understand how you can say that a thermocouple isn't failsafe. The problem you describe is with a different component - the valve. If the valve sticks closed, or doesn't open quickly enough, then no-one will know about a faulty thermocouple so the choice of DIY or calling in a fitter doesn't come into it.

gromituk

moneysavingplumber wrote:

It's only in the last year that electricians have had restrictions placed on them under Part P but it's far less constrictive in that I can still legally DIY my electrics and get it signed off by a building inspector, which you can also do with oil work, but not with gas.

Has that changed in the past few years then? A colleague did his own gas boiler installation and had it commissioned by a CORGI fitter.

moneysavingplumber

gromituk wrote:

I take your point that there may be other things wrong with the boiler, but I don't understand how you can say that a thermocouple isn't failsafe. The problem you describe is with a different component - the valve. If the valve sticks closed, or doesn't open quickly enough, then no-one will know about a faulty thermocouple so the choice of DIY or calling in a fitter doesn't come into it.

Some valves will stay open even when the thermocouple is correctly aligned, correctly seated in the valve, even when the flame is extinguished. That's why it is on the checklist of essential safety checks.

moneysavingplumber

gromituk wrote:

But you could just as well conclude that the law is an !!!!!!.

That is of course your priviledge, but the law is still the law, !!!!!! or not.

moneysavingplumber

gromituk wrote:

Has that changed in the past few years then? A colleague did his own gas boiler installation and had it commissioned by a CORGI fitter.

It's not legal to do this and I don't think it ever was, the Benchmark card asks for details (including Corgi reg number) of installer and commissioning engineer (if different) making it clear that the manufacturers expect the installer and commissioning engineer to be Corgi registered, even if they are two different people, and as we all know, manufacturers instructions supercede gas safety regulations and are taken as the word of law.